Centennial Oral Histories:
Sally Robinson

00:00:35:13 – 00:00:49:23

Luke Powery

I’m Luke Powery, and this is the Duke University Oral Histories program, and I’m so delighted to be with Sally Robinson today. Sally, it’s great to see you.

00:00:50:00 – 00:00:53:07

Sally Robinson

Thank you, Luke. It’s great to be here.

00:00:53:09 – 00:01:23:21

Luke Powery

Well, we know that you have a very long history with the University. And you’ve – you cultivated this relationship with Duke from a very young age. And I heard that you used to listen to football games on the radio. And so, is that how your love for Duke began? And if so, also, or if not, how has your relationship with Duke changed over the years?

00:01:23:22 – 00:01:53:06

Sally Robinson

Well, thank you for asking that. My mother and father had four boys in eight years, thought they were done, and I showed up six years later. So I grew up during these four boys. Three of them went to NC State, where my father had gone when it was called Agriculture and Manufacturing. Shows how old that was. So Jim did not want to go into textiles, so he went to Duke.

00:01:53:08 – 00:02:23:17

Sally Robinson

And, I just heard the family talk about Duke. I’m eight years old at the point I’m going to tell you about. It’s 1942. The Japanese have bombed Pearl Harbor, and it was decided that the Rose Bowl, which Duke was playing in, would not be played in California but would be played in Durham in what we now call Wallace Wade Stadium. So I was pretty much oblivious to all of this, though I did like to kick a football cause my brothers did.

00:02:23:18 – 00:02:24:02

Luke Powery

Okay.

00:02:24:05 – 00:02:48:18

Sally Robinson

But, my mother — they had four tickets. My mother and father were going in and two of my brothers, who were not yet in college, and my father got sick with a laryngitis type illness, and he couldn’t go. So one of the other sons got to go. So my dad, who was a draftsman — sold textile machinery, but also did draft work for mills.

00:02:48:20 – 00:03:13:16

Sally Robinson

He said to me, “Sally, come on, we’re going to have a good time listening to this game.” And so he sketched out a — the football field. He lined it all up. Everything was precise. Twenty-yard line, all of that. And he said, now stand right here while I’m listening to the radio and see how I can move my pencil back and forth to show you how they’re doing.”

00:03:13:22 – 00:03:34:14

Sally Robinson

And he said, “I have one for the second half, too.” So I watched the whole Rose Bowl game standing, looking over my father’s shoulder. While he wrote out the plays that he heard on the radio, and of course it looked like we were going to win. But in the end, we lost by I think 5 points. And we were very crushed.

00:03:34:16 – 00:03:58:20

Sally Robinson

But after that, I was a Duke fan. It was nothing that stepped in the way. And that’s how it all began. And so, as I say, only one brother went to Duke, well he took a real interest in my being interested in Duke. And as a result, I got to go up with my mother and father to a few more ball games before Jim had to leave and go into the war.

00:03:58:22 – 00:04:02:01

Sally Robinson

This is World War II. So that’s how it all began.

00:04:02:03 – 00:04:05:04

Luke Powery

Wow. With football. Who would

00:04:05:06 – 00:04:08:08

Luke Powery

of thought that?

00:04:08:10 – 00:04:34:06

Luke Powery

I will remember that Sally Robinson and Duke football. And so fast forward a little bit, obviously. You became an undergraduate student at Duke in the 1950s, and you were one of the few married students at the time on campus. What was Duke like then, and what was your experience like?

00:04:34:06 – 00:04:44:08

Sally Robinson

Well, when I came to Duke, I graduated high school in ’51. So when I came to Duke, my first two years, I lived in Bassett House.

00:04:44:12 – 00:04:44:20

Luke Powery

Okay.

00:04:45:01 – 00:05:08:20

Sally Robinson

And, having been in boarding school in Raleigh, it was not much of an adjustment. I felt comfortable. Had a roommate that I’d known at Saint Mary’s. We were very good friends. And, so it was just a natural thing for me to be at Duke. I enjoyed living in Bassett House and back in those days the sororities meant something.

00:05:08:22 – 00:05:36:07

Sally Robinson

And, we went through rush, and then, we joined something called ADPi — I don’t even know if it’s still around — but I enjoyed it. But in the meantime, I was very much in love with Russell Robinson, whom I had started dating in high school, 15, age 15. And he had gone off to Princeton. And so, he began to thumb down for the weekends.

00:05:36:12 – 00:05:58:22

Sally Robinson

Back in the day when people would get on the highway and thumb. So he would come down, and we would have a great time, and then he’d thumb back. Well, about half way through that year, his mother told him how wonderful he’d been to be away from me since she knew how much he cared for me. So she gave him a real ticket to come down.

00:05:59:00 – 00:06:09:03

Sally Robinson

He never told her he’d been thumbing for the rest of the time. But anyway, he decided to transfer to Duke so we could get married.

00:06:09:06 – 00:06:09:16

Luke Powery

Wow.

00:06:09:17 – 00:06:23:01

Sally Robinson

So he left Princeton, came to Duke, and we had one year of just dating, being pinned. And then we got married in 1953, right before my junior year.

00:06:23:07 – 00:06:23:22

Luke Powery

Okay.

00:06:24:00 – 00:06:53:21

Sally Robinson

So, we lived in a place called Poplar Apartments. I don’t know if they are there. They looked totally different and a lot of them’ve been torn down. But at our time Poplar Apartments, which had been built by J. A. Jones Construction Company, and Mr. Jones was very active — had been on the Duke Board. So we were able to get a one bedroom apartment there. And almost everybody there was a married Duke student.

00:06:53:23 – 00:07:23:09

Sally Robinson

Yes. Or faculty, young faculty living there. We were one of maybe 2 or 3 undergraduate married students at that time. So it was different, and it was a bit of an adjustment, of course, trying to keep up with what class was what. We had one car. But we got through it, and Russ was number one in his class the whole way, and I worked hard to try to keep up a little bit with him.

00:07:23:11 – 00:07:53:17

Sally Robinson

And so, I graduated in ’55. And Russ had one more year of law school. So we got pregnant with Cammie, our daughter, who went to Duke, by the way. And then we moved back to Charlotte, after Russ had graduated from law school. And we’ve been in Charlotte ever since. And we’ve been married, I was telling your friends, 71 years, which is so…

00:07:53:19 – 00:07:54:12

Luke Powery

That’s amazing.

00:07:54:12 – 00:07:57:08

Sally Robinson

It’s amazing.

00:07:57:10 – 00:08:00:23

Luke Powery

Can I say it as the Dean of the Chapel? That’s a miracle. {Laughing}

00:08:01:01 – 00:08:05:21

Sally Robinson

{Laughing} I love it. I love it.

00:08:05:23 – 00:08:06:13

Luke Powery

Oh that’s so wonderful. That’s so special.

00:08:06:15 – 00:08:12:11

Sally Robinson

So, I’m 91 and Russ will be 93 next month. So we’re just blessed.

00:08:12:11 – 00:08:13:18

Luke Powery

Amazing. Amazing.

00:08:13:20 – 00:08:31:11

Sally Robinson

And Duke is such a big part of our life. And, you know, I love it when Russ has over the years told the story that when he came, he thought Duke: the professors won’t be that good, not compared to Princeton. But he found that the professors he had, the one year

00:08:31:13 – 00:08:46:23

Sally Robinson

before he went to law school, he said were better. And for Russ to say that was something. He loved law school. And as I say, he was number one his class all three years. So he was born to be a lawyer.

00:08:47:01 – 00:08:48:10

Luke Powery

Okay. Wonderful.

00:08:48:12 – 00:08:53:18

Sally Robinson

So that’s my experience as an undergraduate and married student at Duke.

00:08:54:00 – 00:09:18:02

Luke Powery

Okay. Thank you. Thank you for that. Fast forward even further. You served on the Duke Board of Trustees from 1995 to 2004. Can you talk about being elected to the Trustees and some of the most important moments you remember from your time as a trustee?

00:09:18:03 – 00:09:45:18

Sally Robinson

Well, I would have never been on the Duke Board of Trustees had it not been for Russ. And that’s true. And this is how: We have a summer home up in Linville, and there’s several places like Grandfather Mountain and several resort places close by. And Russ was Chairman of The Duke Endowment, and he got a phone call and said, we are going to bring Nan Keohane — she’s brand new.

00:09:45:20 – 00:10:10:01

Sally Robinson

We’re going to bring her up in August. She’s going to speak at one of the at Beacon Heights Club, and we wondered, Russell, since you’re Chairman of The Duke Endowment — would you be willing, you and your wife, to let her stay with you? And Russ said, “Of course!” So that’s how I met Nan. And we had such a good time together.

00:10:10:03 – 00:10:33:07

Sally Robinson

But that’s how — I mean, just out of nowhere, I got a phone call from her saying you’re being considered for the Duke Board, would you be willing to serve? And I said, “Oh, yes!” But I said, “Nan, just the fact that you’ve called to say I’m being considered; If I’m not chosen, I’m still honored.” So,

00:10:33:07 – 00:10:48:22

Sally Robinson

goodness, what a surprise. So, somehow I did make it. And it was just — I only could serve nine years instead of ten, because in those days when you turned 70, you were off the Board. It may be 72 now. So I’m not sure.

00:10:49:00 – 00:10:49:18

Luke Powery

Okay.

00:10:49:20 – 00:11:16:01

Sally Robinson

So I had to leave one year before my term was up, but it was great. I grew up a lot. I mean, I was nervous, being with all these outstanding people. But they stretched me. You know, I had to — I mean, when I was asked to chair this, what we call the Student Affairs Committee that put me on the Executive Committee, I thought, “Oh my gosh.”

00:11:16:02 – 00:11:41:13

Sally Robinson

But it was a beautiful experience for me. And I grew. I love Duke more and more. And Nan was fantastic. So that was great. And I will tell you this little special thing. We got a call. I had gone home after the last — my last — board meeting. And Nan left the same year. And I got a call from her assistant.

00:11:41:13 – 00:11:54:03

Sally Robinson

Said, “Nan wanted to know, could you and Russell possibly come up and spend the night at the Washington Duke and let them take you to supper? It will be their last night in Durham.

00:11:54:05 – 00:11:54:15

Luke Powery

Hmmm.

00:11:54:17 – 00:12:24:17

Sally Robinson

And I said “Oh my goodness! What an honor, yes!” So we went up, we went out to a restaurant – I can’t remember the name of. It was a little bit out, not at Hope Valley but near there. And when we picked them up, and we had a wonderful time. And when we took them home, I’ll never forget the picture of Nan and Bob holding hands, walking in the house where they had been living for the last night that they would be on Duke campus.

00:12:24:19 – 00:12:28:12

Sally Robinson

So, it was a great experience.

00:12:28:14 – 00:12:45:02

Luke Powery

Wow. So you — you’re saying in many ways your service on the Board of Trustees really deepened your, well, your knowledge. Like you said, it expanded you, but even your sort of deep your appreciation for Duke, your love, through that.

00:12:45:03 – 00:12:49:11

Sally Robinson

Oh yes, yes. It moved beyond football and basketball.

00:12:49:13 – 00:12:50:23

Luke Powery

There’s actually more at Duke.

00:12:51:00 – 00:12:52:01

Sally Robinson

That’s right.

00:12:52:03 – 00:12:57:04

Sally Robinson

No it wasn’t. It was nine of the best years of my life. No question.

00:12:57:04 – 00:12:57:13

Luke Powery

Wow.

00:12:57:14 – 00:13:02:11

Sally Robinson

No question. And Nan was superb as a President.

00:13:02:13 – 00:13:10:11

Luke Powery

That’s wonderful. I know she, talking about President Nan Keohane, obviously was the first woman president.

00:13:10:11 – 00:13:10:21

Sally Robinson

Yes.

00:13:10:21 – 00:13:11:20

Luke Powery

At the university.

00:13:11:20 – 00:13:13:12

Sally Robinson

Yes.

00:13:13:14 – 00:13:26:07

Luke Powery

Through your perspective and relationship with her, what was what was that like? Talk about that experience of Duke having its first woman president and, you know, all of the various dynamics.

00:13:26:08 – 00:13:47:17

Sally Robinson

Yes. Well, of course, being a woman, I loved that. And there were few women on the Board. Some wonderful ones. But there was still at least three-fourths men, at least three-fourths. And I just, I think, Wilhelmina Reuben-Cooke was on there.

00:13:47:19 – 00:13:48:07

Luke Powery

Hmmm.

00:13:48:08 – 00:13:55:20

Sally Robinson

And I got to serve with her on the Executive Committee. I think she and I both felt, “Oh, isn’t this great to have a woman running Duke.

00:14:00:05 – 00:14:30:03

Sally Robinson

Nan. This is how Nan was: When they were planning, and of course, I was not on the Board then, but Russ being with The Duke Endowment, we went for her inauguration. And one of the things she did before her formal inauguration that morning, she had, “I ran with Nan” t-shirts. And so she asked the students that would do it to run a mile with her.

00:14:30:05 – 00:14:56:18

Sally Robinson

And so they ran with Nan. Now, that’s an unusual way to begin your presidency. But it was who she was. And when they stayed with us, she went out and ran up to the Parkway. So she was she was natural, energetic, enthusiastic, and made women feel that they could do anything. So she was great. Truly great.

00:14:56:20 – 00:15:08:03

Luke Powery

That’s wonderful. I also know that you’ve served on the Presidential Search Committee, that recommended Dick Brodhead to succeed President Keohane.

00:15:08:04 – 00:15:08:09

Sally Robinson

Yes.

00:15:08:13 – 00:15:11:11

Luke Powery

And tell us a little bit about that.

00:15:11:11 – 00:15:20:04

Sally Robinson

I was very pleased to be on that search committee. What I was thinking is, let’s look for someone who was really, really good.

00:15:20:08 – 00:15:35:17

Sally Robinson

And, Duke was not in any way hurting or suffering. There were no big problems that needed solving. It was just “Who can we bring in to lead us now at a different time?

00:15:35:17 – 00:15:57:19

Sally Robinson

Who will it be?” Allison Haltom — you all know her — she was the chairman of the Committee. Allison was the assistant to the President. And we first met Dick in New York City. He came in, and we interviewed him, and I’ve told him this, I wasn’t real sure how interested he was in us at that time.

00:15:57:22 – 00:15:59:16

Sally Robinson

He was coming from Yale.

00:15:59:16 – 00:16:00:13

Luke Powery

Right.

00:16:00:14 – 00:16:18:16

Sally Robinson

We pared down, got down to four maybe and he came — and we asked him to come. And I was so pleased he said he would. And he came down, and we interviewed him – not in Durham, but just outside Durham, over in the Chapel Hill area.

00:16:18:18 – 00:16:19:18

Luke Powery

Okay.

00:16:19:20 – 00:16:32:21

Sally Robinson

And I felt, “Oh good, he’s warming towards us now.” He had a manner about him that was almost like a genius.

00:16:32:23 – 00:16:33:09

Luke Powery

Hmmm.

00:16:33:11 – 00:16:44:10

Sally Robinson

And I hope he’ll come. So we had a great meeting. We knew we were in a lot of competition. He was — I think people thought he would be president of Yale. He was dean of the college.

00:16:44:12 – 00:16:45:06

Luke Powery

Right.

00:16:45:08 – 00:16:53:22

Sally Robinson

So, we decided that he was the one for us, and we hoped that we were the one he wanted. And he accepted. I’ll never forget it.

00:16:53:22 – 00:16:55:21

Sally Robinson

Dick was superb.

00:16:55:23 – 00:17:07:18

Sally Robinson

Just superb in every way. I remember once he was — he was speaking when the new wing of the law school was being built, and he’s such a good speaker.

00:17:07:20 – 00:17:24:16

Sally Robinson

And I went up him and I said, “Dick can I — since Russ wasn’t here — I’d love to get your notes and copy your speech. And he reached in his pocket — it was an envelope. And on the back was this tiny little scrawl of about that long. He said, “Here it is.” I said, “That’s okay.”

00:17:24:18 – 00:17:27:02

Luke Powery

{Laughing}

00:17:27:04 – 00:17:31:09

Sally Robinson

But I thought he was marvelous.

00:17:31:11 – 00:17:46:05

Sally Robinson

We had — I feel like our mountain house was a place for presidents. He and Cindy spent a weekend with us up in Linville, and it was just so good to be with him. And he’s done so many wonderful things.

00:17:46:07 – 00:18:17:15

Sally Robinson

With Nan it was the Duke/Durham partnership. I think it’s one of the best things she ever did. Because she made Duke seem a part of Durham better then it had been before. With Dick, I think the Duke Engage and then the effort to — to build a fund of $300 million for — to bring in students who could not afford to come to Duke – those two instances.

00:18:17:17 – 00:18:20:07

Sally Robinson

It’s called the Financial Aid Initiative.

00:18:20:09 – 00:18:21:13

Luke Powery

Okay.

00:18:21:15 – 00:18:30:19

Sally Robinson

And then Duke Engage. I think those were two of the things that Dick did that defined so much his time at Duke.

00:18:30:21 – 00:18:45:01

Luke Powery

Say something more about the Financial Aid Initiative you just made a reference to. You chaired that. And why was that so important to you, to the university, to higher education?

00:18:45:03 – 00:18:49:16

Sally Robinson

Yes. Dick asked me to co-chair it with Rick Wagoner.

00:18:49:18 – 00:18:50:09

Luke Powery

Okay.

00:18:50:11 – 00:19:18:11

Sally Robinson

And so we did that. And Dick said we’ve got to get students who can’t afford to come here into this place, but we need some extra funding to do that. And The Duke Endowment wanted to be part of it, too. So they became a big part of it. We wanted to help raise the funds, which we did, and we wanted to meet the students that came to campus that we took because of that.

00:19:18:13 – 00:19:42:20

Sally Robinson

We didn’t have day to day work to do other than really fundraising. But, I’ll never forget, we got to meet some of the students that came to Duke on financial aid. And I’ll tell you one story. There was a young man, and of course I can’t remember its name. And he was from somewhere in Virginia. His family was not well off.

00:19:42:22 – 00:19:57:09

Sally Robinson

They had to sell the house. They were very poor. The father somehow got into the business of iron making, particularly making elaborate iron banisters for stairways.

00:19:57:11 – 00:20:03:21

Sally Robinson

Of all things, Tallman was working on the Divinity School addition.

00:20:03:23 – 00:20:05:11

Luke Powery

Okay.

00:20:05:13 – 00:20:18:11

Sally Robinson

And this young man who was at Duke then, his father was the one that did the banisters in the stairway going up. Beautiful wrought iron. And the next time you’re there take a look.

00:20:18:13 – 00:20:19:07

Luke Powery

Wow.

00:20:19:09 – 00:20:28:19

Sally Robinson

That was the father. This young boy grew up. And the last time I spoke to him was on the bridge to the Bryan Center.

00:20:28:21 – 00:20:42:03

Sally Robinson

And I said I’ve just heard some great news and he was a Root-Tilden Scholar to the NYU Law School. Now that’s a beautiful example, I think, of the Financial Aid Initiative.

00:20:42:05 – 00:20:45:16

Luke Powery

Yeah. That’s – that’s so human. It’s so Duke.

00:20:45:18 – 00:20:47:08

Sally Robinson

It’s so Duke! It’s so Duke.

00:20:47:09 – 00:21:08:18

Luke Powery

That’s what I’m learning. Yeah. Yeah. Wonderful. Now, you also mentioned, the Duke Engage And I know you were, a member of that national advisory board at some point. Could you speak — say something more about the creation of Duke Engage and what were the goals of the program

00:21:08:20 – 00:21:10:16

Luke Powery

when it was founded?

00:21:10:18 – 00:21:39:15

Sally Robinson

Okay. I think that Peter was eager for us to do this. Peter Lang, our Provost. And somehow we were lucky enough, Duke was, to get Eric Mlyn to — who’s in political science, I believe. But he took the time off from whatever he’d been teaching and headed the Duke Engage effort for four or five years until he retired.

00:21:39:17 – 00:21:43:01

Sally Robinson

I’m not sure what he’s doing. I think he’s doing something for Duke.

00:21:43:03 – 00:21:45:12

Luke Powery

He is. He’s still around the University.

00:21:45:14 – 00:22:15:05

Sally Robinson

So, it was wonderful because Dick and his team had come up with this idea that Duke — when you came to Duke… — a student… it was. And I think it was Vince. It may be in that dialog with the three presidents… In a way, you went into a bubble. Everything was great. Beautiful campus, bright students, wonderful professors.

00:22:15:07 – 00:22:17:18

Sally Robinson

But there was more to life than that.

00:22:17:20 – 00:22:48:16

Sally Robinson

And so one way to get out of the bubble — and this I’m sort of quoting, I think it was Vince that used that word — was to come up with something different to get that you could have an immersive condition, a situation off campus where you connected with people who were in totally different circumstances than you, and at the same time to learn more about the world.

00:22:48:18 – 00:23:24:14

Sally Robinson

So the international part was very big. Students were going all over the world, and yet some were working domestically that work for them, in six or seven cities. Charlotte was one. And I love this: Charlotte, we — Michael Marsicano was involved in this, too — We had a group of six or seven students each year for about five years, course they’d rather go off to Europe. But here they came.

00:23:24:16 – 00:23:54:08

Sally Robinson

And so I remember one night Russ and I had a little party for those six students that year, and Jay Bilas – whom you all know — came to the party and people were talking about Duke Engage and how did it happen. And so I said. “Jay, I hope you don’t mind my saying this, but we’ve been told that up until this past year when students who were admitted to Duke were asked ‘How did you first get interested in Duke?’

00:23:54:10 – 00:24:00:08

Sally Robinson

The majority said ‘Through Duke basketball.’ But this year they said “through Duke Engage.”

00:24:00:10 – 00:24:02:00

Luke Powery

Oh, wow. {Laughing}

00:24:02:02 – 00:24:02:23

Sally Robinson

“And I apologize, Jay.”

00:24:02:21 – 00:24:03:04

Luke Powery

Right.

00:24:03:06 – 00:24:05:05

Luke Powery

{Laughing} He wasn’t offended, I hope.

00:24:05:07 – 00:24:29:15

Sally Robinson

{Laughing} He was not offended. But it was a wonderful program. And one thing I’ll have to say, if you don’t mind this personal note. Our grandson, Will Robinson, signed up for Duke Engage. And he was in South Africa. And it was while he was there with about seven other students that he met this young woman who was also at the Duke campus.

00:24:29:17 – 00:24:36:02

Sally Robinson

They met and fell in love there. And they are married and have two children. Live in Durham. Duke Engage.

00:24:36:04 – 00:24:42:02

Luke Powery

{Laughing} Literally engaged. {Laughing}

00:24:42:04 – 00:24:57:08

Sally Robinson

But it’s a wonderful program. And, I hope… I know it’s it’s…, Eric has stepped aside of course. And I think it’s, it’s — I’m not sure where it’s located, but I hope and believe it’s still going strong.

00:24:57:10 – 00:25:01:06

Luke Powery

It is. It’s currently based in the Kenan Institute of Ethics.

00:25:01:08 – 00:25:02:14

Sally Robinson

Oh, yes. That’s right. I remember.

00:25:02:16 – 00:25:04:20

Luke Powery

And, still, it’s still thriving.

00:25:04:22 – 00:25:06:14

Sally Robinson

And very popular with students?

00:25:06:15 – 00:25:07:21

Luke Powery

As far as I know, it is. It really is.

00:25:07:22 – 00:25:08:12

Sally Robinson

Wonderful.

00:25:08:14 – 00:25:15:08

Sally Robinson

Well, those two things that Dick did, I think were great: Financial Aid and Duke Engage. He was outstanding.

00:25:15:09 – 00:25:29:00

Luke Powery

That’s great. Well, let me turn — well, I guess you were a history major of course — but to a historical moment: we both served on President Price’s Commission on Memory and History.

00:25:29:02 – 00:25:29:16

Sally Robinson

Yes, I remember.

00:25:29:17 – 00:25:38:15

Luke Powery

And obviously you were involved. We were involved in the recommendation regarding the statue of Robert E. Lee.

00:25:38:16 – 00:25:39:08

Sally Robinson

Yes.

00:25:39:09 – 00:25:51:12

Luke Powery

on the portal of Duke Chapel and its ultimate removal that President Price decided. But talk about Duke’s relationship with its history.

00:25:51:14 – 00:25:58:05

Sally Robinson

All right. I may not have much in depth, but I can give my thoughts.

00:25:58:07 – 00:26:33:14

Sally Robinson

When I went to Duke, there were no Black students. There was no. As far as I could tell, no one was even to talking about it then. But then I left, in ’55 of actually ’56 when Russ left. But then — And then our kids went to Duke but well, before they went, in the ’60s, was when it brewed up and at last there was some effort made to change that history of not having any Black students.

00:26:33:16 – 00:26:51:04

Sally Robinson

And of course, Wilhelmina, who got to be a very dear friend of mine through The Duke Endowment and my coming with Russ when he would come. She was one of the five, and I believe, Luke, that she was the beauty queen her sophomore year. I think.

00:26:51:06 – 00:26:51:21

Luke Powery

Oh wow.

00:26:51:23 – 00:27:00:15

Sally Robinson

But which was wonderful. So those were some strides, but there was so much more that needed to be done taking five.

00:27:00:17 – 00:27:03:10

Sally Robinson

And like sort of token, that didn’t work.

00:27:03:12 – 00:27:04:06

Luke Powery

Right.

00:27:04:08 – 00:27:18:12

Sally Robinson

And then, of course, the ’60s were a time of turmoil anyway, across the nation. And and there was just, a lot I didn’t really know about it then, but apparently it was pretty bad.

00:27:18:14 – 00:27:27:20

Sally Robinson

And, and slowly we’ve begun to — I hope we’re well underway.

00:27:27:22 – 00:27:29:08

Luke Powery

Right.

00:27:29:09 – 00:27:35:21

Sally Robinson

But and — I think that made naming the building, the Wilhelmina Cooke building you know they changed that, remember?

00:27:35:23 – 00:27:37:14

Luke Powery

That’s right.

00:27:37:15 – 00:27:53:20

Sally Robinson

I thought that was perfect. And The Duke Endowment and John Hope Franklin. We changed but we were late. We were slow. And am I right that Julian Abele, who designed the Chapel, that he wasn’t allowed on campus?

00:27:53:22 – 00:28:01:07

Luke Powery

That’s — there’s some competing histories about that, but that’s basic — that’s the strongest narrative, that he wasn’t allowed.

00:28:01:09 – 00:28:07:22

Sally Robinson

Oh wow, that is just unbelievable. And I’m so pleased that Dick — another other great thing Dick did is change the name of the quad.

00:28:07:23 – 00:28:09:06

Luke Powery

That’s right.

00:28:09:08 – 00:28:22:03

Sally Robinson

And Russ and I were there. And some of Abele’s children or grandchildren were there, and you were there of course. But that was a great stride. I’m sure that pleased you.

00:28:22:05 – 00:28:23:16

Luke Powery

It did. Yeah. Yeah.

00:28:23:18 – 00:28:29:06

Sally Robinson

But we had we had a long way to go, and I hope we, I hope we’re there. I don’t know.

00:28:29:08 – 00:28:31:17

Luke Powery

Yeah, I think it’s an ongoing work.

00:28:31:18 – 00:28:32:17

Sally Robinson

Yeah. There you go.

00:28:32:19 – 00:28:46:20

Luke Powery

Because if you look back at the history, you were there in the ’50s, you talk about the ’60s and the tumultuous times, but yet the first five Black undergraduates come. And so it’s a gradual revolution.

00:28:46:22 – 00:28:47:00

Sally Robinson

Yes.

00:28:47:02 – 00:28:51:15

Luke Powery

And, and I think it continues to unfold really, in many ways.

00:28:51:17 – 00:28:52:22

Sally Robinson

Yeah. I hope so.

00:28:52:23 – 00:28:54:11

Luke Powery

As the university grows and develops.

00:28:54:13 – 00:28:56:04

Sally Robinson

I hope so.

00:28:56:06 – 00:29:02:20

Luke Powery

What — so you majored in history, and why was that? {Laughing}

00:29:02:22 – 00:29:05:01

Sally Robinson

{Laughing}

00:29:05:03 – 00:29:09:19

Luke Powery

And how has that influenced your life – majoring in history?

00:29:09:21 – 00:29:12:08

Sally Robinson

Well.

00:29:12:10 – 00:29:39:21

Sally Robinson

I think I always liked stories. And my father, being a good bit older than I, used to tell me a lot about the history of his growing up in Stokes County, North Carolina. So I always thought I would like history. And then when I went to this prep school, Saint Mary’s, I had a history teacher, Mabel Morrison, who was born in England but had come to this country, and she taught the history of England.

00:29:39:23 – 00:29:59:03

Sally Robinson

And I loved it. And I thought, oh gosh, I’ve got to do more of this. So when I went to Duke and of course, in those days you had to get some things out of the way, you had certain degree of science, certain degree of foreign language. So immediately I knew I wanted to major in history. And thinking about our conversation coming up today,

00:29:59:05 – 00:30:23:15

Sally Robinson

I thought about Dr. Watson, Dr. Ferguson, Dr. Woody. These are people that when I took history my freshman year, I had two of those gentlemen and then on with others. I just loved it. And I liked English as a minor because I thought that the stories from the English through novels and…

00:30:23:17 – 00:30:45:17

Sally Robinson

pointed up the history. So I just loved it. It meant the world to me. And I was real pleased that one of the deans at that time called me and asked me if I would consider going to graduate school in history and I said, “Thank you. No, I’m not going to be doing that, but thank you.”

00:30:45:19 – 00:30:54:11

Sally Robinson

So, you know, I think that showed that — how much I cared for it. But — and I’m going to pull out a magazine.

00:30:54:13 – 00:30:55:13

Luke Powery

Please do.

00:30:55:15 – 00:30:59:16

Sally Robinson

I’ve always loved history. And one day,

00:30:59:18 – 00:31:33:06

Sally Robinson

I was looking at the American Scholar. And this is from autumn of 1998. And on the front was a list of the topics and one said “Only Connect.” And I thought, that sounds interesting. So I opened it up and it was — it was a chapter written by a professor from the Midwest. And he — his question was, “How can you tell if a person has had a good liberal arts education?”

00:31:33:08 – 00:32:00:17

Sally Robinson

How can you tell? What are the characteristics? And so he pointed them out as he went through this. And, they were things like someone with a good liberal arts education knows how to listen. They read, they understand, they write clearly and on and on. Until the tenth. And the tenth was this and, you know — E. M. Forster —

00:32:00:19 – 00:32:39:22

Sally Robinson

E. M. Forster in Howards End use the term “only connect.” “Only connect.” And then this is what he said, “More than anything else, being an educated person means being able to see connections that allow one to make sense of the world and act within it in creative ways. Every one of the qualities I have described up to now — listening, reading, talking, writing, truth-seeking — lead up to this.

00:32:39:23 – 00:33:05:19

Sally Robinson

It’s learning how to work in community. It’s about connecting. A liberal education is about gaining the power, the wisdom, the generosity, and the freedom to connect.” And that meant so much to me. It’s kind of went — rang a bell. I thought, that’s what Duke did for me through those history courses. They taught me — not as much as some people, but I was on the way.

00:33:05:21 – 00:33:07:21

Luke Powery

{Laughing}

00:33:07:23 – 00:33:11:16

Sally Robinson

So I treasure this a lot. 1998.

00:33:11:18 – 00:33:46:09

Luke Powery

Love that. Connections. Yeah. Connections. Well, you and, your husband, Russell, Russ, are recognized for exceptional service. At Duke of, of course, but also your civic service. Your philanthropy that’s benefited so many people, so many organizations. What is the impetus behind this commitment to help others that both you and Russ share?

00:33:46:11 – 00:34:14:20

Sally Robinson

Well, you’re very gracious in saying that there’s so much more others doing that we could do. But, but we do, we do love to be involved. Now that we’re — Russ is not well. We aren’t able to do it now, but we have loved being active in Charlotte. And at Duke. Those are the two places that we love. And for myself, I have to thank my mother for this.

00:34:14:22 – 00:34:42:03

Sally Robinson

My mother, who grew up in a time when women in Charlotte were never on any nonprofit boards. They were always auxiliaries. They weren’t quite up to being on the board, really. The only exceptions to that were – the main exception was the YWCA. That was for women. And my mother was president of that organization. And back in that day — this is unbelievable —

00:34:42:05 – 00:35:07:13

Sally Robinson

back in that day there were two sections to the observer – local and the national. I still have this. I look at it. There’s a picture of my mother on the front page of the local, with five other women all dressed up, and they are the new officers of the YWCA. And I remember looking at that and thinking, I’d like to do something like that, like my mother does.

00:35:07:15 – 00:35:23:15

Sally Robinson

And I had — one of my favorite things — there was a little silver urn about this big that was given to my mother when she stepped down. And I look at it every day. So that influenced my wanting to be involved in my community of Charlotte.

00:35:23:17 – 00:35:49:15

Sally Robinson

And then of course, Duke came to me and to Russ kind of together because that’s where we had been most serious in dating. And where we lived when we first got married. So at home and at Duke it’s the main thing and the for both of us — Russ of course I think he just grew up wanting to be part of things.

00:35:49:17 – 00:36:04:20

Sally Robinson

I just think it it’s in his blood to want to do that and to give back financially. We just wish we could give more. But it’s just great to think that by giving a little did this and maybe to that.

00:36:04:22 – 00:36:08:05

Sally Robinson

That’s about it. It’s nothing real dramatic.

00:36:08:07 – 00:36:25:13

Luke Powery

{Laughing} But you’ve had such a great impact on the University and Charlotte and so many and and I don’t know if you remember, in the bylaws, University bylaws, which I’ve become pretty interested in during the centennial times.

00:36:25:15 – 00:36:35:17

Luke Powery

The article one aims — the very last aim, you and Russ embody so well: knowledge in service to society.

00:36:35:19 – 00:36:38:08

Sally Robinson

Thank you. That’s so gracious of you.

00:36:38:09 – 00:36:42:06

Luke Powery

So you represent the University, embody it so well.

00:36:42:07 – 00:36:46:12

Sally Robinson

Well, that’s a great honor to hear you say that. Thank you.

00:36:46:14 – 00:37:11:18

Luke Powery

The — just a little — thinking about you and Russ together. And that Duke connection, and it is hard. And you made a reference to Jay Bilas, and it’s hard not to think about Duke and Duke basketball {laughing} in particular, and not just academics, but the athletics, which I actually think is — also it’s the holistic approach to education, something.

00:37:11:20 – 00:37:33:05

Luke Powery

Now is it true? What I hear is you and Russ are big Duke basketball fans. How did that even come to be? I mean, it’s interesting because you listened to the football game at the Rose Bowl…football and became a student. Just how did that love for Duke basketball come to you and Russ?

00:37:33:07 – 00:37:44:03

Sally Robinson

Well, it’s interesting. Up until about the time I went to Duke, football at Duke was the main thing. And I listened to all the games on the radio.

00:37:44:05 – 00:37:44:21

Luke Powery

Okay.

00:37:44:23 – 00:38:10:21

Sally Robinson

I got to only about three. My mother would take me sometimes, but that wasn’t happening much. But it was football that I loved. And then when I went off to high school at Saint Mary’s, my brothers were big into basketball because Sammy Ranzino and Dick Dickey and Everett Case had come onto the scene and made, basketball at State quite prominent.

00:38:10:23 – 00:38:20:20

Sally Robinson

And I used to listen to those games on the radio at night, and only when I came to Duke did it begin to turn

00:38:20:22 – 00:38:55:04

Sally Robinson

towards basketball. And the one figure that made that happened was Dick Groat. Dick Groat, who was fantastic to watch playing, and he was he was, the boyfriend of my sorority sister, Rachel. So there was Rachel’s boyfriend playing. It turned out to be an All-American. Dick Groat was one of our most famous early players. So then that switched to basketball and so — I’m kind of nut, I’m a little bit more tempered now that I’m older.

00:38:55:06 – 00:39:10:22

Sally Robinson

But at home, I had to sit on the same stool to watch every game that Duke played on. If I didn’t sit on the stool, they were gonna lose. Then I had a yo-yo, and I would yo-yo if the game got close, you know, and that helped pull us through.

00:39:10:23 – 00:39:11:19

Luke Powery

{Laughing}

00:39:11:20 – 00:39:30:20

Sally Robinson

But one of my funny stories is that one night we were going to a symphony, Charlotte’s Symphony uptown. Duke was really playing an important game. I almost didn’t want to go, but I had a little portable radio. I took and I thought, well, maybe at some point this was before earplugs. I thought, well, maybe I can just get the score.

00:39:30:22 – 00:39:51:04

Sally Robinson

So, they were — they ended this piece and people were clapping, and I thought I would get the score, and I didn’t know that a man in front could hear. And he turned around. He said, first time I’ve ever heard Tchaikovsky and Coach K at the same time.

00:39:51:06 – 00:39:54:09

Luke Powery

{Laughing}

00:39:54:11 – 00:39:58:02

Sally Robinson

Krzyzewski and Tchaikovsky at the same time.

00:39:58:04 – 00:40:00:04

Luke Powery

{Laughing} Oh that’s good.

00:40:00:06 – 00:40:09:22

Sally Robinson

So that’s the way it is. And I still, I never miss a game on the radio. I’m sorry that we can’t go and sit in section three like we used to, but our grandson Will and his wife, they’re there.

00:40:09:23 – 00:40:13:17

Luke Powery

Yeah. {Laughing} That’s great.

00:40:13:19 – 00:40:20:20

Sally Robinson

So I feel like I have a love affair with Duke University. And, it’s just enriched my life tremendously.

00:40:20:21 – 00:40:49:03

Luke Powery

So special. Well, I’m going to take, before I get to the final two related questions about centennial oriented — I want to take a Dean of the Chapel privilege. {Laughing} And really ask you all these years. And just what? Because so often, you know, when you were coming back and forth, I would see you and Russ in the Chapel at Baccalaureate or whatever it may be, a special service here or there in Duke Chapel.

00:40:49:05 – 00:40:56:04

Luke Powery

What has the Chapel meant to you over time at Duke?

00:40:56:06 – 00:41:09:05

Sally Robinson

Well, that’s very interesting. Russ was raised as Episcopalian. I was raised as a Methodist. That was a little bit of a problem when we first got married.

00:41:09:07 – 00:41:20:07

Sally Robinson

Because Russ will continually to say “How can you have a real communion when you’re drinking Welch’s grape juice?” Episcopalians don’t do that.

00:41:20:09 – 00:41:21:14

Luke Powery

{Laughing} No, no, no.

00:41:21:16 – 00:41:49:03

Sally Robinson

{Laughing} So that was a bit of a touchy affair. But when I got Russ over there for the first time at Duke Chapel, he fell in love with it. I mean, just the beauty of the place, the music of the place. And so when we were still — when we were not married just students, we went every Sunday. We did that when we got married. When the, when the baby Cammie came

00:41:49:05 – 00:42:15:11

Sally Robinson

we sometimes couldn’t get there because of the babysitter. And when we’d come back, Luke, to go in that place and the beauty of the architecture, the beauty of the music, the glass in the windows and then the choir. It was just magnificent. And I’ve never heard a bad sermon at Duke. I mean, you have added so much to it. You really have.

00:42:15:13 – 00:42:25:05

Sally Robinson

And it’s our favorite place to go to worship. And I’m just sorry we don’t get there more. We have watched some online, but it’s not the same.

00:45:50:04 – 00:42:26:12

Luke Powery

No, no, definitely not.

00:42:26:13- 00:42:28:03

Sally Robinson

Heard some good sermons there.

00:42:28:05 – 00:42:44:16

Luke Powery

Thank you. Well, obviously, you know, this is the Centennial Celebration. And all through your long history, with Duke. What about Duke makes you most proud?

00:42:44:18 – 00:42:59:04

Sally Robinson

Wow. That’s a tough one. That’s a tough one. It — When I’m at Duke, I have a sense of place. I feel in place.

00:42:59:06 – 00:43:32:02

Sally Robinson

And there’s so many parts and we’ve talked about that: the students, my friends, the students. The faculty, sports, the Chapel. It for some reason I have just feel in place. I don’t know besides my hometown, where I grew up, no place that I go gives me that sense of place that Duke does. It’s just a combination of so many things, but I mean it.

00:43:32:04 – 00:43:34:15

Luke Powery

That’s what. That’s great. A sense of belonging.

00:43:34:16 – 00:43:35:08

Sally Robinson

Yes.

00:43:35:09 – 00:43:38:21

Luke Powery

Which they talk about today quite a bit. Belonging. But yeah, that place.

00:43:38:22 – 00:43:41:18

Sally Robinson

Yeah. It’s that sense of place.

00:43:41:20 – 00:43:53:17

Luke Powery

Well one last question. As we look towards the second century of the University, what are your hopes for Duke?

00:43:53:19 – 00:44:02:04

Sally Robinson

Well you know I’ve listened twice to Judy Woodruff’s interview with the three presidents.

00:44:02:06 – 00:44:16:07

Sally Robinson

And when I finished both times — when I finished, I felt inspired and grateful. Grateful for what they’ve done for Duke, inspired by their love of this place and what they think of it.

00:44:16:09 – 00:44:48:00

Sally Robinson

And Judy kind of asks a question sort of like that. There was no specific answer. But what they were saying is they felt so blessed to be in a community that was optimistic, that thought that better days were even ahead than the wonderful time they’ve had. The commitment to the University, the way people work together at Duke. One of them said there’s a sense of enthusiasm

00:44:48:01 – 00:44:58:06

Sally Robinson

that’s just amazing. So and then they said, whatever changes are made let’s do it Duke’s way.

00:44:58:08 – 00:45:04:12

Sally Robinson

Let’s don’t try to be like some other institution. Let’s be Duke.

00:45:04:14 – 00:45:23:05

Sally Robinson

And that’s the way I feel. I just want Duke to be Duke. I don’t know what — I haven’t been on the Board in a long time. I don’t know what’s in the works if anything. But let’s do it that Duke way and keep strong what we’ve got because it’s a blessed place.

00:45:23:07 – 00:45:25:13

Luke Powery

It is. It is.

00:45:25:15 – 00:45:29:01

Luke Powery

Well Sally thank you so much . . .

00:45:29:03 – 00:45:30:05

Sally Robinson

I’ve had the best time.

00:45:30:07 – 00:45:31:18

Luke Powery

for taking the time.

00:45:31:19 – 00:45:33:03

Luke Powery

It’s so good to see you.

00:45:33:01 – 00:45:34:21

Sally Robinson

Oh it’s great to see you.

00:45:34:23 – 00:45:38:22

Luke Powery

And that little piece you read about connections.

00:45:38:23 – 00:45:40:13

Sally Robinson

Yes. Yes.

00:45:40:15 – 00:46:03:13

Luke Powery

You have helped — you and Russ — have helped hundreds of people here in Charlotte, there at Duke, to connect with meaningful places to serve, to connect with one another. And, so thank you. And I’m grateful for our connection. I’m so grateful.

00:46:03:15 – 00:46:05:04

Sally Robinson

I’ve had the best time being here with you.

00:46:05:06 – 00:46:10:12

Luke Powery

So thank you, for everything you have done for this University.

00:46:10:14 – 00:46:15:08

Sally Robinson

Well, thank you for what you’ve done and for giving me this opportunity. Thank you.