Centennial Oral Histories:
Grant Hill

00:00:36:17 – 00:01:03:02

Ann Pelham

My name is Ann Pelham, and I’m here today with Grant Hill for a conversation to mark Duke’s centennial celebration. Grant, you’ve been a Duke leader, a basketball star, a broadcaster, an art collector, and a successful businessman, and a husband and father. And you’ve got more time to go to do more things. You’ve managed to create quite a life since you left Duke back in 1994.

00:01:03:04 – 00:01:24:07

Ann Pelham

So what we are going to lean into more today than some of those many elements of your life is the Duke part. So let’s go back and start with where you got to Duke, how you got here. You were growing up in Reston [Virginia] as an only child of two wonderful parents.

00:01:24:09 – 00:01:30:01

Ann Pelham

And they were really thrilled when you decided to come to Duke. Is that right [laughs]?

00:01:30:03 – 00:01:55:11

Grant Hill

Yes. Kind of, yes. My parents were — first of all, I’m an only child of two only children. So, that explains a lot. But no, I obviously fell in love with basketball. And that was how I was first introduced to Duke University. And as I was falling in love with basketball, college basketball was blossoming, particularly with the advent of cable television.

00:01:55:12 – 00:02:31:08

Grant Hill

And there were a couple of local hometown guys [from] Northern Virginia — the DMV area — who came and were part of Coach K’s [Mike Krzyzewski’s] early success. Johnny Dawkins, who graduated in 1985, excuse me, 1986, and then Tommy Amaker, who literally grew up the next town over from me. And he graduated in 1987. So watching some hometown guys go to Duke, and sort of put Duke basketball on the map, was first how Duke got on my radar, if you will.

00:02:31:10 – 00:02:54:11

Grant Hill

And then I started to show promise and started to be recruited by, you know, pretty much most of the schools out there. And, it was really Coach K. Coach K, before he was this iconic figure in the world of sports,

00:02:54:13 – 00:03:37:16

Grant Hill

he was an up-and-coming, just hard-nosed, honest, man of integrity. All these things that — you saw something there, and you wanted to be a part of it. And so that’s how it all kind of happened. And that’s how I was introduced and have had this lifelong relationship with the university. But, I will say, as much as my parents grew to love Duke, I don’t know if they were thrilled with the decision at the time. In part because my mother was a huge Georgetown fan, and I think loved the idea of me going to school and playing basketball literally in her backyard.

00:03:37:19 – 00:04:13:08

Grant Hill

She would check on me probably every day, which might not have been a good thing. And then, believe it or not, my dad was a huge North Carolina fan, UNC fan. But I think through that decision — which, I’m still amazed that I made such an important decision, a significant decision, a decision that continues to just pay off and continues to enrich and continues to just play an important role in my life, to make that decision

00:04:13:08 – 00:04:42:16

Grant Hill

[when] I [had] just turned 16.  Something about Coach K, something about the university, something about the community here, was endearing. And so I’m proud of my 16-year-old self for having the wisdom to make that decision. But [my parents] Janet Hill and Calvin Hill at first were not super enthusiastic about that decision at that time.

00:04:42:18 – 00:05:09:17

Ann Pelham

Well as you said, they became enthusiastic over the years. And your mother was such a proud Duke supporter for so many years. She became a trustee of the university. And that’s a role that you hold now. So the Hill family has been a Duke family for many years. We appreciate that, and we appreciate your support and all that you’ve done.

00:05:09:19 – 00:05:33:00

Ann Pelham

But I’d like to hear a little bit more about what it was like to be a student at Duke back in the early 1990s. Certainly, it was very different than the situation some basketball players find today when they’re only on campus for a year. Many are still here for four years, but you had a chance to be a student.

00:05:33:00 – 00:05:42:04

Ann Pelham

You’ve talked about some of the courses you took. How was it to be a student-athlete at Duke in the early 1990s?

00:05:42:06 – 00:06:15:16

Grant Hill

It’s a great question. It was, I think, very different for the basketball student-athletes back, then as you mentioned, compared to present day. And obviously basketball was a big deal in the early 1990s, and when I arrived on campus in the fall of 1990. People were very much aware of who you [are] and sort of your bio, your stats, and the anticipation of the upcoming season.

00:06:15:18 – 00:06:50:02

Grant Hill

But I thought that excitement was really balanced with just a level of normalcy. You were able to really be a part of the community, whether that was as a student, in class and study sessions and study groups. The social aspect. It really, for me — the basketball part, I think obviously everyone or a lot of people [are] aware of, and certainly we were a part of some great times.

00:06:50:02 – 00:07:19:06

Grant Hill

But the people, the community, the student body. I learned so much from my peers. And I have lifelong friends as a result of many of those experiences. But there was just, I don’t know, I felt like you kind of stood out. Because one, you’re tall. And two, because of the association with the basketball team.

00:07:19:08 – 00:07:50:06

Grant Hill

But you were just another part of the community. And the school and the size of the school, I felt like — the intimacy of the school, you felt like you knew everyone. And you felt like you had a chance to really interact with some incredible people that as a 17-year-old who arrived on campus was just in awe of the kind of people that I had a chance to be around, to live with, to learn with, to socialize with.

00:07:50:08 – 00:08:07:01

Grant Hill

I’m glad I experienced Duke as a student-athlete in the early 1990s and not in the present day. Nothing against the present day, but I would have missed out, possibly, on those four years of just some valuable life lessons and experiences.

00:08:07:03 – 00:08:27:19

Ann Pelham

You mentioned — you wrote a book recently, published in 2022, “Game, An Autobiography.” And in it you talked a little bit about a couple of classes. One was anatomy. I was impressed that you took a class in anatomy. Because your major wasn’t in that area, right?

00:08:27:21 – 00:08:53:06

Grant Hill

No, it was not [laughs]. It was not. Not at all. And I took the class. It was a class . . . Frank Bassett who is no longer with us but was a prominent figure in the Duke medical system. He was really one of the pioneers in sports medicine and was also the basketball and football team doctor.

00:08:53:08 – 00:09:13:23

Grant Hill

And so he had this Anatomy of the Lower Extremities course. He encouraged me and some of my teammates to take the class. And I was also dating someone who was kind of a pre-med student. So those two influences at the time led me into the class [laughs].

00:09:13:23 – 00:09:43:19

Grant Hill

And, it was one of the most fascinating courses and experiences I had. To be able to learn more about the body, to have cadavers in the class, and go through the process of exploring the different muscles and the nerve endings. And little did I know, one, that a lot of that would come in handy later in life with the various injuries and setbacks that I had throughout my career.

00:09:43:21 – 00:10:04:22

Grant Hill

But it was just fascinating. And I think at the time, it just was an example of the many offerings that were here at Duke, and the educational experience — the world-class education. A chance to learn from one of the best – like I said, a pioneer in the world of sports medicine. And, a funny story.

00:10:04:22 – 00:10:36:06

Grant Hill

So, I took the class during my second semester – sophomore year. That was the spring of 1992. And of course, that was a magical time. It was our back-to-back NCAA championship season. We’re at the Final Four in Minneapolis, and we just played Indiana. And during the game, I banged my knee. I had a collision and I fell and my knee kind of hit the floor of the hardwood.

00:10:36:08 – 00:11:08:14

Grant Hill

And, after the game, Dr. Bassett was examining my knee. And he’s poking around, and I said, “Doc, I think it’s my medial epicondyle.” And now, I’m not sure it really was. But he was so excited that I was able to [say that]. Like, I’m paying attention in class. I remember that moment, and we years later would joke about that. But those friendships, you know, that class was incredible.

00:11:08:14 – 00:11:11:14

Grant Hill

The only bad part was the smell.

00:11:11:15 – 00:11:12:07

Ann Pelham

Formaldehyde?

00:11:12:07 – 00:11:38:22

Grant Hill

Formaldehyde. Yeah. I never quite got used to [that] during the semester. But I mean, not many student-athletes who aren’t pre-med majors have that kind of exposure to that kind of class. And although I didn’t pursue a career in medicine, just to have a real respect and healthy understanding of how the body works.

00:11:38:22 – 00:11:39:20

Ann Pelham

Right.

00:11:39:20 – 00:11:42:06

Grant Hill

It was really, really fascinating.

00:11:42:08 – 00:12:05:07

Ann Pelham

Well, you managed to major in history and political science. So it is a long way from anatomy. You broke new ground there. And I will just go ahead and mention another class, and that was public speaking that you took. You mentioned [that] in your autobiography. Why did you decide to do that,

00:12:05:07 – 00:12:08:20

Ann Pelham

and did that make any difference later on?

00:12:08:23 – 00:12:10:21

Grant Hill

I’m impressed, Ann. You really did read the book.

00:12:10:22 – 00:12:14:08

Ann Pelham

I was motivated. We’re having a conversation here [laughs].

00:12:14:09 – 00:12:51:14

Grant Hill

No, no. You know, so it’s interesting. I used to have a slight stutter and was very uncomfortable with the idea of public speaking. And in interviews, the very few that I was fortunate to do while in high school as a result of my success on the basketball court, I struggled mightily. I lacked the confidence. I talked too fast.

00:12:51:16 – 00:13:31:05

Grant Hill

And my freshman year, I can’t remember what semester, but I ended up taking a public speaking course. And learned a lot of tools, had a lot of opportunities to practice in front of the class. I was the type of student in high school where if the teacher asked a question to the class and I knew the answer, I was so hesitant to raise my hand. Not because I was fearful of being wrong, but just because I was uncomfortable with the idea of speaking in front of a group.

00:13:31:11 – 00:13:55:23

Grant Hill

And so anyway, that class. I don’t know if I was fully aware of how important that class would be and how it helped me gain the confidence and the necessary tools to be successful when speaking in front of groups. Or speaking in front of the media. Or speaking in front of Ann Pelham.

00:13:56:01 – 00:14:33:17

Grant Hill

But that really helped me. And look, with the notoriety and the spotlight of Duke basketball at that time, it certainly came in handy. And now I do a number of public speaking events. Speaking to corporations, speaking amongst a group of employees, a team. My role as managing director at USA Basketball. It has always kind of gone back to that freshman year, I think it was second semester of freshman year, when I took that course. As an elective.

00:14:33:19 – 00:14:43:23

Grant Hill

And really gave me the confidence that I can do this. And I’ve been, as some would say, I’ve been talking ever since [laughs].

00:14:44:01 – 00:14:58:12

Ann Pelham

Well, and enjoying it, I think. And you’re a broadcaster as well, and that’s a situation where you have to think on your feet, for sure, if you’re calling a basketball game or trying to offer commentary.

00:14:58:14 – 00:15:37:15

Grant Hill

Who would have thought [that] the young man who – essentially a teenager who arrived here in the fall of 1990, to think that I would broadcast basketball games. I mean that that was — I never would have thought that. And it’s interesting. Just the idea, the ability to communicate, the ability to connect with people. That’s so important in life, whether you are a public speaker or you’re working in television, media, whatever the case may be. To be able to communicate effectively is really a large part of any success in any industry.

00:15:37:15 – 00:16:10:03

Grant Hill

And so I remember – my sophomore year, I was in my apartment on Central Campus, and my parents were back in Northern Virginia at home. And we were doing a sports radio interview with a local sports radio station in the Washington, DC area. And it was during the school year, and my parents were on the interview as well.

00:16:10:05 – 00:16:33:04

Grant Hill

So they’re at home on the phone, and I’m in my Central Campus apartment on the phone, and I’m answering questions. And most of the questions were directed towards me. And when the interview concluded, my parents called me and I’m thinking, okay, I might have split a verb. Or what did I say wrong?

00:16:33:04 – 00:16:55:12

Grant Hill

And they were just in awe of how I conducted myself and how composed I was. And I was thoughtful and all these things. So I think in a very short period of time they saw that growth and that confidence. And so, maybe it naturally would have happened.

00:16:55:12 – 00:17:04:21

Grant Hill

But I do think that class was a pivotal moment for me during my early years here at Duke.

00:17:04:21 – 00:17:35:07

Ann Pelham

Well it didn’t hurt, either, for your parents to take note and give you some positive feedback, too. I’m glad that they were that smart. And I know they meant every word of it. But you had great parents, and I think they also helped you have the confidence to do things like — well, after Duke you were making your way into the marketplace, you didn’t have an agent. You hired a lawyer, and you made a lot of decisions yourself.

00:17:35:09 – 00:17:43:12

Ann Pelham

Do you think that made a big difference in the way that you managed the off-court aspect of your career?

00:17:43:14 – 00:18:24:16

Grant Hill

Yeah, that’s a great point. Since I graduated from Duke, I’ve been able to do a lot of really cool things. And I think in part, the decision when I left and entered the NBA, I went through the process early to find representation. And sort of the traditional model was [that] you hire an agent and you pay that agent a percentage. And there was a certain amount — the maximum amount — that they could charge for your NBA contract.

00:18:24:21 – 00:19:00:00

Grant Hill

And then, there was no limit to what they could charge for your various marketing opportunities and deals, as such. And so, I think part of – just being exposed to my peers in school and hearing about their dreams and their aspirations and what they wanted to accomplish. There was an ambition that was here. Students were go-getters, students wanted to get out and make a difference and wanted to do something of substance.

00:19:00:00 – 00:19:26:08

Grant Hill

And we all sort of defined success differently. But you’re in that environment, and you’re interacting with people of your own age who have that kind of energy and spirit about them. It rubs off. And so I think in a lot of ways I was inspired by my peers. And [so I thought] okay, so what makes the most sense here?

00:19:26:13 – 00:19:59:16

Grant Hill

I played at Duke in 120, I don’t know, 125 nationally-televised games. I’m going into the NBA. The NBA is a global media and public relations firm. Why do I need to pay an agent 20% of my earnings? And why not — we’re essentially business people, why not hire an attorney? It made a lot of sense, and so that was the route I took.

00:19:59:16 – 00:20:23:04

Grant Hill

And, I mean, obviously my parents’ influence was certainly important. But I just think the environment at the school and being around just incredibly intelligent people [made me think] “So, what would this person do?” Those were things that were going through my mind in April of 1994 when I was going through that process.

00:20:23:04 – 00:20:50:16

Ann Pelham

You were still very young at that point. You weren’t 17 anymore, but you were 21. But I think  you had the confidence to question the status quo. Long before Taylor Swift rerecorded all of her albums, you were standing on your own. You were trusting your own judgment. And I think you’ve continued to do that.

00:20:50:18 – 00:21:19:00

Ann Pelham

To your credit. Let’s talk a little bit about Coach K before we leave those college years. I think he was an influence on so many of his players. Are there a couple of things that stand out for you, from your exposure to him as a coach — and a hard-driving coach at times and other times, maybe, a fatherly figure of some sort?

00:21:19:02 – 00:21:20:14

Ann Pelham

What are a couple of them?

00:21:20:19 – 00:21:51:00

Grant Hill

I mean, there’s so much to unpack with Coach K. I’ll say that I was fortunate to receive an experience and receive a world-class education here at Duke. Its incredible faculty, classes — some of which we talked about — and I also mentioned I learned from my classmates. The social interactions, the study groups, all of that.

00:21:51:02 – 00:22:18:07

Grant Hill

But there was so much that I learned and that has stuck with me [that came] from Coach K. I call it the “Classroom of K.” I think for him — at least how I interpreted those four years and really just his success over the course of his 40 plus years coaching at Duke — it’s really about teaching values.

00:22:18:08 – 00:22:48:16

Grant Hill

And those values and getting everyone in to buy into collective responsibility and teamwork and love – all these things that he emphasized and preached and would use real-life examples or used examples in basketball to teach these lessons, the winning was really just a byproduct of that. And so I mean, yeah, you had talent.

00:22:48:16 – 00:23:26:01

Grant Hill

And obviously there’s pressure to win and all of that. But these values were instrumental and were sort of the ingredients for the success. So in everything I do, whether it’s sports-related, it’s business, it’s leadership, it’s being a parent — I feel like I’m harping on and I’m sort of reflecting on so much of what he gave us. And the winning, the banners, the Krzyzewskiville and all the excitement that that comes with it,

00:23:26:01 – 00:23:53:06

Grant Hill

it’s incredible. But those moments in film sessions, those moments on the court during practice, those teachable moments. Those are the things that were incredible. And what I love about Coach was he was a relationship coach. He took the time, which is a great lesson as a leader,

00:23:53:06 – 00:24:23:22

Grant Hill

but he took the time to understand his players. And understand who they are, and how best to connect with them, and to get the most out of them. And so I played with some incredible teammates who had varying personalities. Christian Laettner, Bobby Hurley, myself — all very different people. And he figured out how to resonate with each one of us.

00:24:24:01 – 00:24:46:21

Grant Hill

And so his beauty, his genius, it’s not — he’ll get mad at me for saying this — but it’s not necessarily in the X’s and O’s and in the strategy, but it’s connecting with people and pulling something out of them. Pulling greatness out of them. And also at times holding them accountable [laughs].

00:24:46:23 – 00:24:50:22

Ann Pelham

He was never a one size fits all kind of guy.

00:24:51:00 – 00:25:22:02

Grant Hill

Not at all. Not at all. And I think as you look at the totality of his career and his accomplishments — I mean just the fact that you can inspire and teach and resonate with young men in 1980, and then still have that same level of impact with young men in 2019 or 2020. That’s hard to do [with] multiple generations.

00:25:22:02 – 00:25:54:06

Grant Hill

And so the adapting, the adjusting, the ability to recognize the landscape and not change who you are but adapt in terms of how to connect with those [players]. I have a hard time connecting with my own children [laughs]. But there’s a generation gap, and he mastered that. And I’ve always said that he was a magnificent leader who just so happened to coach basketball.

00:25:54:08 – 00:26:05:15

Grant Hill

And if he had chosen any other field or any other industry, I truly believe that he would have had success. And thankfully, he chose basketball [laughs].

00:26:05:15 – 00:26:06:20

Ann Pelham

And you came along at just the right time.

00:26:07:05 – 00:26:07:15

Grant Hill

Right. Right.

00:26:07:16 – 00:26:21:04

Ann Pelham

So, I can’t help but ask you about that famous moment in the regional final against Kentucky when you threw that — Well, if you’ll just tell us what happened, that would be great.

00:26:21:05 – 00:26:45:17

Grant Hill

Yeah. No, it’s amazing. That was over 30 years ago. And people mention that play — even people who weren’t born. I’ll see young, current Duke students. Or just in my travels, I’ll meet somebody who’s in their early 20s, and they’ll talk about that play. And I’m thinking, “That was 30-plus years ago.”

00:26:45:19 – 00:27:10:23

Grant Hill

But it really was an incredible moment. And to set the scene, we’re in the regional finals in the old Spectrum [arena] in Philadelphia. We’ve been undefeated all season. We’re number one reigning champions. We’re playing Kentucky. And it’s a close game, back and forth. And Sean Woods from Kentucky hits a shot.

00:27:11:01 – 00:27:43:04

Grant Hill

A lucky shot. With like 2.1 seconds left. And prior to that moment when he hit that shot, I felt like we were determined – it was destiny for us to repeat. We were so good, and so dominant, all season. And for the first time, I didn’t believe. Like I thought, “Okay, this run is over.” And he hits this shot. There’s 2.1 seconds left, and we call a timeout.

00:27:43:06 – 00:28:14:12

Grant Hill

It really was an incredible lesson in leadership. And I give Coach — obviously I made a great pass, and Christian [Laettner] made a tremendous shot — but Coach really was the foundation for our success in that moment. So he did a few things during that time out. First of all, as we were walking to the bench, and I’m thinking about, “Well, I might be at Beach Week next week instead of the Final Four.” Because it was spring break.

00:28:14:12 – 00:28:36:23

Grant Hill

“And so, if I can’t go to the Final Four, it’d be fun to go to Myrtle Beach. I hear all these stories. Maybe I get a chance to experience it.” But nevertheless, we’re all walking to the bench. Our minds are elsewhere. And instead of him waiting for us to arrive, he met us on the court. And he told us, “We’re going to win.”

00:28:37:01 – 00:28:44:10

Grant Hill

And so he just — he reassured us and he established a vision.

00:28:44:12 – 00:28:45:10

Ann Pelham

He got your attention.

00:28:45:11 – 00:29:13:12

Grant Hill

He got our attention. And it’s big. He used to talk about wanting to show a strong face, and as a leader, show confidence. Even if in that moment he may not have believed, it made us believe. And then as we were diagramming the play to run, instead of telling me, “Grant, you’re going to make this pass,” he asked me if I could make the pass. In front of the group.

00:29:13:14 – 00:29:34:08

Grant Hill

Now, we did drills every day. And one of those drills was a full length of a court baseball pass. And I prided myself on being the best passer. I used to talk trash during the drills. So he knew I could make the pass. But instead of telling me, he asked me. And I said, “I can do it.”

00:29:34:08 – 00:29:59:19

Grant Hill

And there’s something about taking ownership and saying it. “I can do it.” In this pressure-filled moment in the Spectrum, the emotions of the Kentucky fans [who] are screaming and thinking they’re going off to the Final Four the next weekend. The Duke fans are dejected, the players — like, we’ve given everything. And then to ask me that and for me to say that — okay, that’s one thing.

00:29:59:19 – 00:30:26:09

Grant Hill

And then he asked Christian Laettner if he could make the shot. And Christian never lacked confidence. And so Christian said, “Well, if Grant makes the pass, I’ll make the shot.” So, that should have been reassuring. Now I’m a little bit like — now the pressure’s on me again. No, but I mean, that’s what took place in the huddle.

00:30:26:11 – 00:30:49:06

Grant Hill

And so one, I think, [it was] meeting us, reassuring us, that we were going to win. And then asking us if we can do our part. So as I came to the bench, I’m thinking [that] this season’s over. And then when I left the bench after that timeout to head back on the court, I felt like we were going to win.

00:30:49:07 – 00:30:57:18

Grant Hill

And so to change that belief in that short period of time, I give Coach K so much credit.

00:30:57:20 – 00:31:01:08

Ann Pelham

He gave you some agency, somehow, with those questions.

00:31:01:10 – 00:31:02:06

Grant Hill

He empowered us.

00:31:02:06 – 00:31:02:12

Ann Pelham

Yes.

00:31:02:12 – 00:31:28:09

Grant Hill

He did. And that’s what leadership is. I saw it. I experienced it, in one of the most incredible moments, pressure-filled moments. And thankfully we had him on our side, and we made history. And the only bad part about that play, which is replayed every year during March Madness, is that I get to live with this bad haircut.

00:31:28:11 – 00:31:32:22

Grant Hill

And the only bad part is the flat top. You know, it was in, I guess, in 1992.

00:31:32:22 – 00:31:36:17

Ann Pelham

I’m sorry. I don’t know that many people noticed your haircut.

00:31:36:19 – 00:31:37:07

Grant Hill

That’s all I see.

00:31:37:07 – 00:31:38:22

Ann Pelham

Was there a story about the haircut?

00:31:38:22 – 00:31:53:05

Grant Hill

Well, I just tell young people that it pays to not be too trendy when you’re young. Because you may regret it later. And so when I see that play, everyone sees the pass and the shot. I’m just like, “What was I doing with that haircut?”

00:31:53:07 – 00:31:56:13

Ann Pelham

Was it really close on the sides, and a little bit more at the top?

00:31:56:15 – 00:32:02:00

Grant Hill

A lot more at the top. Yeah, it was kind of like Kid ‘n’ Play. I don’t know if you’re familiar [laughs]?

00:32:02:02 – 00:32:11:20

Ann Pelham

Whatever. Whatever [laughs]. Well, I think you should just enjoy the moment and not worry about the haircut. Because nobody else is noticing that.

00:32:11:21 – 00:32:13:10

Grant Hill

Good advice. Good advice.

00:32:13:12 – 00:32:43:15

Ann Pelham

And you had the two back-to-back wins. You graduated. You’ve managed to stay connected to Duke in different ways. I know there were probably times when you were at the Detroit Pistons, or later with the Orlando Magic, when you didn’t have time in your schedule to do very much at all. But you seem to have managed to get back to Duke a lot over the years. Even when you were a young single guy, and playing, and a young married man, a dad.

00:32:43:15 – 00:32:54:13

Ann Pelham

You’ve kept Duke in your heart and made time in your schedule. What makes that a priority for you?

00:32:54:15 – 00:33:23:01

Grant Hill

Well, you know, it’s funny. I remember — I think it was during freshman orientation — they talked about how it wasn’t a four-year relationship, but it was a relationship for a lifetime. I don’t think I fully understood that at that time. And since I graduated,

00:33:23:03 – 00:34:01:20

Grant Hill

yes, I tried to come back in the off-season, in the summers, and while I was playing in the NBA. And there were different causes that you’d support through the Alumni Association, through Duke Athletics. But really one of the great joys for me upon retiring after almost 20 years in the NBA – to really reconnect with the school. First of all, it helped that my mom was a trustee, was on the Board of Trustees.

00:34:01:22 – 00:34:32:00

Grant Hill

And, so through her I was able to stay connected while I was still playing. And at times I had to remind her that, like, “Mom, you didn’t go to Duke.” [Laughs] Because she was so entrenched. And just so engaged and very much involved with all aspects of the university.

00:34:32:02 – 00:35:04:08

Grant Hill

But since I retired from playing in 2013, to reconnect and to just continue this incredible relationship, but also recognize just how much the school has changed and grown and ascended, it’s quite remarkable. And it should be. In theory a university should always improve, in all aspects.

00:35:04:08 – 00:35:32:21

Grant Hill

But I’m just in awe of the school, of the people, of the faculty, the students. It feels like it was sort of this regional school in the South that was becoming popular here in the US in the late 1980s.

00:35:32:21 – 00:35:57:10

Grant Hill

And now it has this global reach and that Duke brand. And as someone who’s sort of been a public ambassador through the years, people identify me with Duke. And so even before I retired, I traveled all over the world, [and] inevitably somebody would say, “Duke.” And they might say, “Bad haircut” [laughs].

00:35:57:15 – 00:36:34:13

Grant Hill

But, no. So to see sort of in a very short period of time where we are as a university, it leaves you in awe, and it’s quite incredible. And so, I’ve enjoyed reconnecting and I’ve encouraged a lot of my peers that it’s important to stay engaged and it’s home to some incredible experiences.

00:36:34:13 – 00:37:00:03

Grant Hill

And I think when you go to a school like Duke, to not only learn in this environment, but to leverage that and to stay connected to it. And so I’ve had tremendous joy and satisfaction in the last 12 years reconnecting in a number of different ways. And it’s been fun.

00:37:00:05 – 00:37:13:21

Ann Pelham

You had an advisor at Duke who also has played a big role here over the years. What was it like to have that long relationship with one advisor? And I’m talking about Sterly Wilder.

00:37:13:23 – 00:37:39:02

Grant Hill

Yes, yes. Sterly Wilder. Wow. She’s incredible. Her relationship to this university — as a student, as a daughter of a professor, and working in a number of different roles over the years — I mean she deserves a statue.

00:37:39:04 – 00:37:39:23

Ann Pelham

I’ll just,

00:37:40:08 – 00:37:47:09

Ann Pelham

the part where she would call you up and say, “Grant, I need you to do this.” You couldn’t say no, right?

00:37:47:09 – 00:38:10:20

Grant Hill

Well, yeah. So Sterly was my academic advisor. I don’t know if she did much advising. We would go, and I’d go to her office, and we’d hang out, we’d gossip. I’d go to her for social advice and if there were issues with significant others, and things of that nature. She would have me sign a lot of autographs.

00:38:10:20 – 00:38:36:20

Grant Hill

I remember, I’d go to her office. But I remember I moved off campus the summer after my second year, my sophomore year. And I don’t think my mother trusted me with her credit card to go and purchase items for our off campus apartment. So she sent Sterly a credit card, and Sterly and I went to the South Square Mall.

00:38:36:20 – 00:38:54:10

Grant Hill

We might have gone to one of the stores, and we were shopping for appliances. And I remember Sterly, she’s telling me, “That’s not practical.” “Don’t do this.” And she’s like a big sister. And that pretty much was the extent of our relationship.

00:38:54:10 – 00:39:30:03

Grant Hill

But no, she’s been a great friend, a great advisor, and just a great representative of the school. A great ambassador of the school. And the thing [is] that when you have people like Sterly Wilder, they love this place. They love Duke University. I don’t have a lot of connectivity to other universities, but I think she represents how a lot of people feel.

00:39:30:05 – 00:39:47:21

Grant Hill

They come here, they work here, they go to school here, and they just love this place. But Sterly — a lot of great moments, a lot of great times with her, and just definitely a good friend.

00:39:48:05 – 00:39:52:03

Ann Pelham

I like your stories about the shopping.

00:39:52:08 – 00:39:54:16

Grant Hill

And we stayed on budget [laughs].

00:39:54:18 – 00:39:55:07

Ann Pelham

That’s right.

00:39:55:08 – 00:39:56:22

Grant Hill

Janet Hill’s budget.

00:39:57:00 – 00:40:22:02

Ann Pelham

Well, I worked on a committee with Janet once, and I remember it was right when everyone was starting to send email instead of call people up. And your mother was great at picking up the phone and getting right to the point when she wanted to get something accomplished. And I learned an awful lot from her. She was a trustee until 2021, and she passed away in 2022.

00:40:22:04 – 00:40:23:09

Grant Hill

Yeah.

00:40:23:11 – 00:40:46:19

Ann Pelham

I know for you and your dad, it’s been difficult. And I’m sure it’s still difficult. And it is [also] so for all of her friends at Duke. Even if she wasn’t an alum, she was beyond a great value to Duke, and considered an alum. She was given the University Medal posthumously.

00:40:46:21 – 00:41:11:16

Ann Pelham

And I think, in many ways, we’re really grateful that you’ve taken a seat on the board. Can you talk about that experience and how you made that decision? And what you’ve learned about Duke from a different perspective, not the end of the basketball court throwing to the other end, but in that seat and thinking about the future – the next 100 years for the university?

00:41:11:17 – 00:41:34:03

Grant Hill

Well, first of all, thank you for those kind words about my mother. She may not have been super excited that I chose Duke and not Georgetown, but she instantly fell in love with this place. And I think it was like, she and my dad were co-chairs of the Parents Committee. And she was on the Fuqua board for years.

00:41:34:03 – 00:41:38:07

Grant Hill

And of course, as you mentioned, as a trustee. I think she even painted her nails blue.

00:41:38:07 – 00:41:40:07

Ann Pelham

Oh, she did. Oh, yes.

00:41:40:07 – 00:42:12:09

Grant Hill

. . . during Duke Board of Trustees meetings. Outside of her family, I’m not sure that there was anything else that she loved more than this place, and this school, and this community. And then as for me, I was asked, I guess, as my mother was rolling off [the board] if I would consider — I still remember President Price calling me and asking me if I would consider that.

00:42:12:09 – 00:42:43:17

Grant Hill

And I was just overwhelmed and surprisingly emotional. I’m not an emotional person [laughs]. But to be asked. I mean, yes. It was a no-brainer. And I think quickly you realize that it’s quite the — I don’t want to say enterprise, but there’s just a lot that makes this place what it is.

00:42:43:17 – 00:43:13:20

Grant Hill

And I think to be a steward and to be part of the leadership here, to have that responsibility, particularly as you mentioned, around the Centennial. We were together last year when we had a joint meeting with The Duke Endowment and we read the Indenture of Trust. And that was that was really — well, first of all, really long [laughs].

00:43:13:22 – 00:43:52:22

Grant Hill

But it was really powerful, just to understand the vision of James B. Duke and to read that. And to just sort of see where we’ve gone, in such a short period of time, compared to our peers. And then now to all of us to be in this role where we start charting the course for the next hundred years. It’s an awesome responsibility, something – there’s tremendous pride, and we’ve come a long way in such a short period of time. And we’re here.

00:43:52:22 – 00:44:16:09

Grant Hill

We’ve established, we’ve proven ourselves. We have the respect in the higher education ecosystem and we’re just getting started. And so, I love it. It’s incredible work. It’s incredible people on the board. And it is an incredible responsibility.

00:44:16:11 – 00:45:10:17

Ann Pelham

The look ahead raises a question about athletics, college athletics, because there’s so much changing in that landscape. And I think there’s concern that the money aspect is in some ways threatening the traditional view of college athletes, the kind of opportunity that you had, to be both a student and an athlete. And I’d just like to ask you to sort of help us understand what you think might happen next, how you see the responsibility of a university, when it may be one step too far when we’re trying to combine athletics and academics.

00:45:10:19 – 00:45:40:05

Ann Pelham

How do you see it playing out? And in some ways, your role with the USA National Team gives you a perspective, an international perspective, on athletics and the unique situation in the United States where we do have many of our professional athletes and our Olympic athletes coming out of universities in a way that is not replicated anywhere else in the world.

00:45:40:07 – 00:45:43:09

Ann Pelham

So help us understand that from your perspective.

00:45:43:11 – 00:45:44:17

Grant Hill

Do we have enough time [laughs]?

00:45:44:19 – 00:45:45:14

Ann Pelham

Yes.

00:45:45:16 – 00:45:47:05

Grant Hill

No.

00:45:47:07 – 00:45:48:13

Ann Pelham

It’s too big a question, I apologize.

00:45:48:14 – 00:46:19:18

Grant Hill

No, no, no. But you and I have talked briefly about this. It’s obviously very different than in the early 1990s. I remember I wanted to go to the Bryan Center, maybe my freshman year or sophomore year, and buy my jersey, and then get the “G” changed on the “G Hill” to “C” for my dad, Calvin Hill.

00:46:20:09 – 00:46:20:23

Ann Pelham

Aw, that’s very nice.

00:46:21:00 – 00:46:40:11

Grant Hill

As a Father’s Day gift. And, it cost me, like, $100 and something, $130 to buy my own jersey. And I remember I was kind of like, “This is weird – I’m paying this kind of money for my jersey.” Okay, fine. I was fortunate, I borrowed money from my mother. So I had the money.

00:46:40:13 – 00:47:09:15

Grant Hill

And so fast forward, this whole sort of push to allow athletes to participate. So much money had been generated over the last 30 years. There’s $1 billion a year that’s generated from the NCAA Tournament. College football. I mean, coaches’ contracts. Things change and evolve. And I think the one constant was athletes — student-athletes — were not allowed to participate.

00:47:09:15 – 00:47:40:16

Grant Hill

And so obviously, [the] Name, Image and Likeness [concept], that was sort of unveiled. But it’s become this sort of wild, wild West. And in a lot of ways it’s become professional sports with no rules. And we have collectives, and we have athletes [who] can leave the transfer portal now. And so, it’s just a very different landscape.

00:47:40:18 – 00:48:09:02

Grant Hill

And some of it I’m for, and some of it I think it’s okay. I mean, I think it’s good that student-athletes should be able to be compensated to some degree. But we don’t have any guardrails. And that’s the thing that, to me, is troubling. To your point, though, also about the Olympic movement. College athletics is a feeder system to the Olympic movement.

00:48:09:04 – 00:48:48:02

Grant Hill

And my fear is we’re moving in college athletics to this sort of professional model. And where do different universities fit into that? Where do we fit into that? These are questions that we’ll have to ask ourselves, I think, at some point. Like, who do we want to be? Who are we? How do you participate at the highest level on the playing field, or on the hardwood, or what have you, but not damage your integrity in your academic mission.

00:48:48:06 – 00:49:09:12

Grant Hill

And so that’s the juggling act I think we all have to play, I think. Not just Duke, but every university. Sports [and] athletics [are] such a part of who we are. It’s a part of our DNA. You know, I remember in school reading about the ancient Greeks and how they would halt wars in the years of the Olympics.

00:49:09:12 – 00:49:33:16

Grant Hill

They understood the power of sport. It inspires, it captivates, it entertains. It does so much. Even then. And so, we understand that and we’ve been able to pursue excellence both in athletics, but most importantly, in academics. But how do you do both in this world that’s changing? And I don’t necessarily have the answers to that.

00:49:33:16 – 00:50:01:06

Grant Hill

But I think as leaders, these are questions that we’ll have to answer and times that we’ll have to navigate. And there’ll be some tough decisions, I think, down the road. I don’t know what those decisions are. But it’s just the uncertainty and what that looks like, not just for the revenue-producing sports, but for the non-revenue-producing sports.

00:50:01:06 – 00:50:32:11

Grant Hill

So, we’re in unprecedented times. I don’t have any answers. I don’t have the answer. But I’m confident, though, that as things continue to evolve, that our leadership collectively will do what’s in the best interest for Duke and we’ll do everything to maintain our athletic and academic integrity through this whole process.

00:50:32:13 – 00:50:36:04

Ann Pelham

You sound optimistic in a nice — in a good way.

00:50:36:06 – 00:50:38:11

Grant Hill

I try to be optimistic, yes.

00:50:38:12 – 00:51:02:16

Ann Pelham

Well, I’m hopeful as well. I think the interest in excellence that crosses all these areas is something that people want to hang on to, but at the same time have some integrity in the way we go about it all. And I think we’re fine right now, but who knows what comes the next day?

00:51:02:18 – 00:51:03:04

Grant Hill

That’s true.

00:51:03:05 – 00:51:19:13

Ann Pelham

And if you look ahead in those next hundred years that Duke will have, after this 100 years, do you have some hopes and dreams, some expectations, that you’d be willing to share today?

00:51:19:15 – 00:51:25:00

Grant Hill

Wow. That’s a great question.

00:51:25:02 – 00:52:07:05

Grant Hill

You know, as I mentioned, as a community, as a university, I think the first hundred years we’ve established ourselves as a premier university of higher education. And I think now that we’re here, it takes a certain energy, it takes a certain spirit, to do what we’ve done. Think of the last 40 or 50 years, where Duke was, and where Duke is now. There’s something unique, something special, something ambitious, that is associated with that.

00:52:07:05 – 00:52:37:09

Grant Hill

And, as the advent of technology and AI and then obviously climate change [continues] — I mean, there’s so much that’s happening in the world. How do we make a difference and tackle some of these challenges that are presenting themselves? I believe Duke will have its hands in so much, and in finding solutions to a number of problems that potentially are out there.

00:52:37:12 – 00:53:10:16

Grant Hill

And we’ve already been ambitious, we’ve been bold, in some of our goals. And I think we’ll continue to be bold. That same boldness that has allowed us to ascend so quickly, I think, will allow us to tackle some incredible hurdles [and] problems and make them incredible opportunities. And so, I think we’ll be part of the solution to some of the issues that potentially are there.

00:53:10:19 – 00:53:19:19

Grant Hill

And I believe 100% that Duke will be a part of those solutions.

00:53:19:21 – 00:53:45:22

Ann Pelham

Well, thank you. I don’t want you to miss the chance to remember something fun that happened in your connection with Duke. Are there some more tales that you can tell us about what you’ve enjoyed about being connected to this university over the years? Winning the basketball championship twice might have been up high on your list.

00:53:46:00 – 00:54:12:13

Grant Hill

That was nice [laughs]. That was fun. And what amazes me with that, really, and I mean it was 30-plus years ago, and people still remember. I’m just kind of amazed by that. And there’s so much greatness, just in Duke basketball, that’s occurred since then. But people still remember those moments.

00:54:12:15 – 00:54:18:11

Grant Hill

You know, a funny story. My wife who—

00:54:18:12 – 00:54:19:03

Ann Pelham

Tamia.

00:54:19:03 – 00:54:49:00

Grant Hill

Tamia, who you’ve met. My wife is a recording artist and was signed to Quincy Jones right out of high school. At 18, she [was] recording on Quincy Jones’ album, and has had a series of albums out. But she never went to college. And she would joke that when I would get together with my classmates for dinner, or maybe we’d go on a trip, or what have you,

00:54:49:02 – 00:55:26:06

Grant Hill

we all kind of tell the same stories. And we’re telling them like we’re telling them for the first time. And we laugh at the same part. She’s like, “You tell the story so much that I know the story and I feel like I was there with you guys.” And so she would joke about that, but she also talked about things like, “Wow, to be able to have that kind of joy, and to be able to share times that you had with your classmates, I wish I had experienced that.”

00:55:26:08 – 00:55:57:23

Grant Hill

And then as she’s become more involved and engaged with Duke, I think she realizes it’s not a college thing. It’s a Duke thing. And not everyone has that same feeling and that same emotion that [I get] when I get with my buddies and we reminisce. Or [when] I meet strangers off the street who went to Duke. There’s a feeling, there’s a spirit, there’s an emotion attached to Duke.

00:55:58:04 – 00:56:19:05

Grant Hill

And we know that, but she knows that [too]. And she sees that. And so I don’t know if that’s funny, but I think it just kind of speaks to what makes this place — makes it Duke, makes it uniquely Duke. And there’s a lot of funny stories.

00:56:19:05 – 00:56:34:10

Grant Hill

I can’t repeat some of them, and they’re probably not worth repeating. But, we do have—well one of the best ones, I’ll say this, was at our trustee retreat last year. And we had karaoke night. Were you? I don’t know if you were—

00:56:34:12 – 00:56:38:02

Ann Pelham

No, keep going. Keep going [laughs].

00:56:38:04 – 00:57:02:20

Grant Hill

So, we had our board retreat, and at the end — it was a wonderful retreat. It was a chance for families to come and connect as a board replenishes. Certain board members will onboard and join and certain [people] will roll off. It’s a chance for everyone to sort of get to know each other.

00:57:02:20 – 00:57:25:22

Grant Hill

Intentional connections. Which I think are important. And at the end, the last night, we had a pretty formal dinner, and then we had a room with a karaoke machine. I’m thinking, “That’s interesting.” Like, how is this going to play out? And let’s say a good portion of the traveling party retired to their suites and went to sleep.

00:57:25:22 – 00:57:40:19

Grant Hill

But there were a few that stayed and got involved with the karaoke and it ended up being like a jam session. Everybody was singing and dancing and it was—

00:57:40:21 – 00:57:42:00

Ann Pelham

Did you take the mic?

00:57:42:02 – 00:58:14:06

Grant Hill

I can’t sing. But I did. And everybody got out there and sang and performed. And it was just, — it was great that everyone could be themselves. They felt comfortable around each other to be silly, to be playful, to be fun. And you looked around the room, and it was just an interesting, diverse, set of people having fun, enjoying each other’s company, laughing at each other, having a great time.

00:58:14:06 – 00:58:27:01

Grant Hill

And it just to me, it felt like this is who we are. We come together, we do some incredible things, we have fun and, at times we don’t take ourselves too seriously.

00:58:27:01 – 00:58:29:07

Ann Pelham

That sounds good.

00:58:29:09 – 00:58:31:11

Grant Hill

Especially when I was on the mic.

00:58:31:13 – 00:58:33:19

Ann Pelham

I’m sure it was delightful.

00:58:33:19 – 00:58:34:06

Grant Hill

Oh, so you weren’t there?

00:58:34:18 – 00:58:38:04

Ann Pelham

Oh, I was in the old group that went to bed. I’ll blame my —

00:58:38:06 – 00:58:39:16

Grant Hill

You should have stayed [laughs].

00:58:40:03 – 00:58:57:21

Ann Pelham

I know. I blame my husband for that. Well, thank you very much for your time, and for all that you’ve done for Duke over the years and will do going forward. We appreciate you. And thank you for being here today.

00:58:57:23 – 00:59:01:14

Grant Hill

Oh, thank you for your time. And thank you for doing a great interview.

00:59:05:05 – 00:59:11:46

Ann Pelham

So, who do you think is going to win that championship this year? Just saying.

00:59:11:47- 00:59:13:16

Grant Hill

The NCAA championship?

00:59:13:17 – 00:59:13:41

Ann Pelham

Yeah.

00:59:13:42 – 00:59:16:01

Grant Hill

I think it’s Duke every year. I think it’s time.

00:59:16:02 – 00:59:35:27

Grant Hill

I think we have the talent. We have the coaching, we have everything, we have experience. We have a unique player in Cooper Flagg, who, I think you need a special player. And so, yeah, I mean, just we go through the season and, obviously we have to stay healthy.

00:59:35:28 – 00:59:39:31

Grant Hill

We got one game away from the Final Four last year.

00:59:39:30 – 00:59:40:05

Ann Pelham

That’s right.

00:59:40:06 – 00:59:47:40

Grant Hill

Somehow, some way, Scheyer and his staff did an incredible job. So, but I always pick Duke. You know.

00:59:47:41 – 00:59:48:15

Ann Pelham

It’s true.

00:59:48:16 – 00:59:51:05

Ann Pelham

I could never fill out a bracket without Duke in the top.

00:59:51:10 – 00:59:52:40

Grant Hill

We’re ready. It’s our time.

00:59:52:44 – 00:59:54:11

Ann Pelham

All right.

00:59:54:46 – 00:59:55:42

Grant Hill

Well, thank you.

00:59:56:10 – 00:59:56:44

Ann Pelham

Thank you.