Centennial Oral Histories:
David Rubenstein

00:00:19:08 – 00:00:40:03

Ann Pelham

Hello, my name is Ann Pelham, and I’m honored to be here today with David Rubenstein, who’s a longtime and important leader for Duke University and a strong supporter of all things Duke. Our conversation is taking place as Duke celebrates its centennial. So, David, you’ve had many roles at Duke since your arrival on campus back in 1966 as a freshman.

00:00:40:05 – 00:01:04:15

Ann Pelham

You served as a trustee for 12 years, and as chair of the Board from 2013 to 2017. And in 2019, you received the University Medal for Distinguished Meritorious Service, Duke’s highest honor. You’ve also been an exceptional donor to Duke, contributing more than $100 million to support facilities and programs for libraries, the arts, financial aid, academics, athletics, and Jewish life at Duke.

00:01:04:17 – 00:01:08:09

Ann Pelham

And your philanthropy extends far beyond Duke. Thank you.

00:01:08:11 – 00:01:13:13

David Rubenstein

Well, thank you for inviting me. It’s my pleasure to be here and I look forward to our conversation.

00:01:13:15 – 00:01:32:19

Ann Pelham

Well, I’d like to focus a little bit on how you got here. Your initial connection with Duke. How did a smart young man from Baltimore decide to attend college down in Durham, North Carolina? You didn’t go north. You went south. You didn’t go down the street to Johns Hopkins [University]. You came to Duke. So how did you hear about it?

00:01:32:19 – 00:01:34:21

Ann Pelham

And what got you in this direction?

00:01:35:00 – 00:01:51:20

David Rubenstein

I can’t honestly say that I surveyed the scene and said Duke was the perfect university for me. That wouldn’t be honest. What actually happened was I went to a large public high school. There were 1,500 people in my class. One guidance counselor. So you got about ten minutes of his time, if you were lucky. So I didn’t really get any guidance counseling.

00:01:51:20 – 00:02:18:03

David Rubenstein

I bought some books about colleges, and I got the usual applications that somebody from Baltimore would probably get if you wanted to go to a good school. Some Ivy League schools, some schools like Williams and Amherst and Wesleyan, those kinds of schools. The University of Chicago. Places like that. But the night before I was filling out applications when they were due, a neighbor of mine said that his brother had gone to Duke University, but that he decided not to fill out the application to go to Duke.

00:02:18:03 – 00:02:34:22

David Rubenstein

He didn’t want to go where his brother had gone. So he said he had an extra application. He said, “Why don’t you fill it out?” And so I got it, and I filled it out. I didn’t think I’d get in. I didn’t think I’d get into any schools, because my handwriting was very bad. I didn’t have a typewriter, so I had to do it all by my script, which is very bad.

00:02:35:00 – 00:02:50:11

David Rubenstein

I wasn’t sure people could read it. So I applied to Duke the night before was due. And then I heard back that they accepted me, and they gave me a scholarship. And I was an equal opportunity scholarship applicant. Whoever gave me the biggest scholarship, that’s where I was going. So Duke gave me the biggest scholarship, and that’s why I came here.

00:02:50:13 – 00:03:03:10

Ann Pelham

[Laughs] You ran through your description of your high school, but it was an exam-driven high school. You had to get in from all over the city. It was an all-boys school. Is that right?

00:03:03:10 – 00:03:30:01

David Rubenstein

You’re correct. It was an all-boys all-city merit school. And I was in one of their special programs, and I had skipped a year of junior high school. They had an unfortunate program at Baltimore, where if you did well in the sixth grade somehow you could skip the eighth grade. I got in it, and I didn’t realize then [that] that was a stupid thing to do. Because I graduated from high school when I was 16, and I entered Duke when I was just barely 17, which is, I think, a year too soon.

00:03:30:03 – 00:03:37:18

David Rubenstein

So if I had to do it all over again, I wouldn’t have skipped the eighth grade. But you know, you can’t make life go all over again. So this is what I did.

00:03:37:20 – 00:03:47:12

Ann Pelham

I’m asking partly because I imagine that gave you some confidence about your intellectual abilities, if you had already gotten into that high school.

00:03:47:13 – 00:04:07:01

David Rubenstein

Well, I did reasonably well in high school, but there were people far smarter than me. And in recent years, I’ve obsessed over figuring out whatever happened to these very smart people. And as I’ve gone through the internet and other friends and connections, I found that many of these people petered out. So many people who were superstars in high school turned out not to be so great later on.

I wrote a book on leadership not long ago, and in that book I pointed out [that] in my observation there were three types of periods in your life. The first third, second third, and third third. And many times people in the first third, they’re the superstars. The Rhodes Scholars, the Supreme Court clerks, presidents of student governments.

00:04:46:10 – 00:05:05:01

David Rubenstein

But if you go back and look at what happened in the second and third third of their life, they tend not to be so great. Many times people just peter out. If you look at people who were president of the United States for example. In the last 100 years, only one person who became president of the United States, the ultimate job, was somebody who maybe was predicted to be president when he was younger.

00:05:05:01 – 00:05:24:12

David Rubenstein

That was Bill Clinton. He was an all-state leader as a high school student. But most of the other people were nothing in high school, to speak of, or and they certainly weren’t going to be anybody [where people] thought they would wind up as president of the United States. So I’ve come up with this theory that the people in the first third burn out. People in the second third actually are people who are like the tortoise [in the tortoise and the hare].

00:05:24:15 – 00:05:37:10

David Rubenstein

They can come along and slowly get better and better. I’ve done that maybe to rationalize how I got lucky in life in the second third of life, and maybe the third third, and I wasn’t such a great person in the first third.

00:05:37:12 – 00:05:43:15

Ann Pelham

[Laughs] Okay, so it’s an interesting theory. I think in your third third, you’re certainly having a good time.

00:05:43:17 – 00:05:49:10

David Rubenstein

I’m doing well, but in third third — the problem with the third third is you don’t know how long it’s going to last.

00:05:49:12 – 00:05:50:00

Ann Pelham

There is that problem.

00:05:50:00 – 00:06:06:00

David Rubenstein

So when I was young, my parents used to read the obituaries in the papers every day. And I would say, “What are you reading the obituaries for?” And now I read the obituaries. Now I know why my parents read [them]. Because you want to see who died that you might know. And I always look and say, “How come this person younger than me died and I’m still around?”

00:06:06:05 – 00:06:18:09

David Rubenstein

So when you get to be in the third third, as I am, you don’t know whether you’re going to make it until you’re 75, 80, 85, 90. Who really knows who’s going to get to 95 or 100, with their faculties?

00:06:18:11 – 00:06:22:10

Ann Pelham

Well, if I’m correct, you just had a birthday in August.

00:06:22:12 – 00:06:35:10

David Rubenstein

I had a birthday. I turned 75. However, I’m thinking of going back to the place I was born, the hospital, to see whether they could give me a new birth certificate and maybe say that the years were wrong. Maybe I was born a couple years later than they actually originally thought.

00:06:35:11 – 00:06:37:18

Ann Pelham

Maybe they don’t know you skipped eighth grade, and all that stuff.

00:06:37:22 – 00:06:54:05

David Rubenstein

I don’t know, but if I can’t get that certificate, it is correct that I did turn 75. An age which, you know, I’m astounded at this age. When I was working in the White House for President Carter, I said to him, “You have no chance of losing to Ronald Reagan. He’s 69 years old. Nobody that old can get out of bed in the morning.”

00:06:54:07 – 00:07:09:05

David Rubenstein

I looked up President Eisenhower, who had looked to me like an old man when he was president. And he left the presidency when he was 70. And then when I started practicing law, the old man who started the firm and was the grand old man of the practice at a firm called Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton & Garrison.

00:07:09:05 – 00:07:25:03

David Rubenstein

This is Judge Rifkin. He came in [inaudible] in to give a speech to the young people that first day. And I said, “Wow, this guy’s so old. I don’t know [if] he can really make it through the end of the day.” He was 70. So I’m amazed that at 75, I can still walk and talk and chew gum.

00:07:25:05 – 00:07:27:18

Ann Pelham

I think you’re really busy for a person who’s 75.

00:07:27:20 – 00:07:28:15

David Rubenstein

Well.

00:07:28:15 – 00:07:30:01

Ann Pelham

You’re still working at The Carlyle [Group].

00:07:30:02 – 00:07:30:18

David Rubenstein

Yes.

00:07:30:20 – 00:07:33:08

Ann Pelham

But you’re not doing 70 countries a year anymore?

00:07:33:11 – 00:07:51:03

David Rubenstein

I’m not flying around the world as much as I used to. I do fly a lot, and I used to fly, at the peak I was honestly flying about 800 hours a year, which is probably too much. I’m now at about 350 hours a year. But that’s because I have other responsibilities now. I’m not running my firm — Carlyle — day-to-day.

00:07:51:05 – 00:08:02:00

David Rubenstein

And most of my nonprofit responsibilities are in the United States. So I do speeches and some fundraising and some nonprofit work outside the United States. But it’s not as much as it used to be.

00:08:02:02 – 00:08:06:15

Ann Pelham

But you’re traveling all over for some of your television shows to interview people.

00:08:06:17 – 00:08:19:00

David Rubenstein

My television shows do take me places, and most of those are done in the United States. Some are done outside. But yes, I do do a lot of TV interviewing these days. Just like you are, right?

00:08:19:02 – 00:08:25:22

Ann Pelham

So remind us where they are. You have two on Bloomberg. Go ahead. I’ll let you talk.

00:08:25:22 – 00:08:40:20

David Rubenstein

Ok, here’s what I think it is. Maybe I have it wrong. But I have a show on Bloomberg which is called Peer to Peer, [where] I interview prominent people. And that can be almost anybody that I can get to do an interview who is reasonably prominent. Usually, I know them. Then I have one called Wealth with David Rubenstein, also on Bloomberg.

00:08:40:20 – 00:09:05:07

David Rubenstein

It’s about finance. I have one on PBS on history. It’s called History with David Rubenstein. I’m starting a new show on longevity, which is my new famous topic that I care about. And it’s about health and how people can live to a longer age. So I’m going to do shows on obesity, drug addiction, Alzheimer’s, cancer, and things like that, and talk to the best doctors in the United States about [those topics].

00:09:05:12 – 00:09:09:16

David Rubenstein

And that show will debut probably in the latter part of this year.

00:09:09:18 – 00:09:12:21

Ann Pelham

Is your audience the baby boomers for whom it’s too late or . . .

00:09:12:23 – 00:09:14:05

David Rubenstein

I hope so.

00:09:14:06 – 00:09:15:10

Ann Pelham

Or the second third people?

00:09:15:10 – 00:09:32:04

David Rubenstein

Well, usually people in the ages of 20 and 30 don’t care about longevity because when you’re 20 or 30 you think you’re going to live forever. As I did. When you get to be 75, you think about the world differently. And I’ve also thought about doing a book on a subject which my publisher said nobody will buy.

00:09:32:06 – 00:09:51:18

David Rubenstein

It’s about when do people actually think about death, and what did they start doing about it? So at what age do people start thinking they ought to take care of themselves better, they ought to do a will if they haven’t had one or redo their will, or do other things that kind of make them live longer. And when do people actually finally figure out, “Yes, I do believe in God.”

00:09:51:18 – 00:10:06:05

David Rubenstein

And “Yes I do want to live in an afterlife, or something like that.” I’m trying to figure out what age that is, because clearly when you’re in your 30s or 40s, you’re not worried about your will. But now, my friends who are my age are talking to me all the time about their wills, and redoing their wills, and this kind of stuff.

00:10:06:07 – 00:10:18:23

David Rubenstein

So it’s clearly a subject on my mind. But my publisher said, “If you put death in the title of a book, it won’t sell.” So I say the title is When You People Start Thinking About Death. . .it won’t sell. So I have to come up with a different title if I’m going to do that book.

00:10:19:01 – 00:10:32:01

Ann Pelham

Okay. I’m looking forward to finding out what the title is. You’ve written a lot of books, too, aside from the television shows. And they’ve sold well. They’ve been well-received by critics.

00:10:32:03 – 00:10:58:22

David Rubenstein

I’ve just finished my fifth book, and I’ll give you a copy as soon as we’re done. It’s on the presidency. It was a little difficult because I wanted to interview some living presidents. I interviewed President Bush, I interviewed Bill Clinton, and I interviewed Joe Biden. I interviewed Donald Trump. But because the election was changing so much towards the end of the nominating period and so forth, I had to redo it and write a lot of additional addendums. Because at the time that I wrote the book, 

00:10:58:23 – 00:11:20:23

David Rubenstein

I thought that Biden would be challenging Trump. But that book is out. It’s called The Highest Calling. You may recall that I once used to say the highest calling of mankind was private equity. I now have to admit that the presidency is a higher calling. So it’s called The Highest Calling. It’s about my observations on the presidency, and [has] interviews about great presidents, and also [includes] interviews with presidents.

00:11:20:23 – 00:11:45:16

David Rubenstein

And that’s my fifth book. The other four sold roughly the same amount. They sell roughly about 80,000 to 100,000 copies. Which is not great when you think about it. You know, if you’re James Patterson, you’re probably selling a million copies every time you do a book. Or Doris Kearns Goodwin or Walter Isaacson. My copies are not quite at their level. But to be on the Best Seller List in the New York Times, you probably need to sell about 20,000 copies in a year, that’s it.

00:11:45:20 – 00:11:48:06

Ann Pelham

So you’ve written bestsellers.

00:11:48:08 – 00:11:50:09

David Rubenstein

By that standard, yes.

00:11:50:11 – 00:11:56:14

Ann Pelham

And I don’t think you need to make $1 million. So it’s working out well.

00:11:56:16 – 00:12:04:06

David Rubenstein

Well, I give away all the proceeds to hospitals and things like that. So I do it because I enjoy doing it, not because I can make any money on it.

00:12:04:08 – 00:12:29:06

Ann Pelham

So, we’ll get back to Duke in a second. But I really feel like you’re having a stimulating and interesting third third of your life. And I’ll just say, with some fun in there. You took the Oriole [mascot] to your commencement address at the American University’s business school and managed to get him an honorary degree.

00:12:29:06 – 00:12:51:07

Ann Pelham

You recently worked with the Library of Congress to go in the attic and get out some of their treasures, and you helped create a new Rubenstein Treasures Gallery there. It opened this summer, I think. And I mean, that’s just two of — I could make a list of 20 things that you’re doing. You’ve got fresh ideas, and you’ve got the ability to execute them.

00:12:51:07 – 00:12:56:18

Ann Pelham

And you have connections with all these boards. It feels like fun to me.

00:12:56:20 – 00:13:16:10

David Rubenstein

Well, I chair a lot of nonprofit boards. And in the nonprofit world, you probably can stay on the boards a little bit longer. So, I still chair the Kennedy Center Board. I’m going to give that up at the end of the year after 14 years. But I still chair the National Gallery of Art Board, and I chair the Economic Club of Washington Board, the Council on Foreign Relations, and the University of Chicago Board.

00:13:16:12 – 00:13:30:12

David Rubenstein

And that takes some time. And then I was just on a corporate board — Moderna — which was the company that created the vaccine for COVID-19. I’ve just had my first meeting on that recently.

00:13:30:12 – 00:13:31:19

Ann Pelham

Did they give you an orientation or something?

00:13:31:19 – 00:13:35:01

David Rubenstein

Well, I just had orientation with them this week.

00:13:35:03 – 00:13:36:04

Ann Pelham

So they really did.

00:13:36:10 – 00:13:40:18

David Rubenstein

Yes, I just had orientation this week. And I now realize I need to take another COVID-19 shot.

00:13:40:20 – 00:13:42:08

Ann Pelham

So there’s a new one coming.

00:13:42:08 – 00:13:53:12

David Rubenstein

There’s a new, what they call a combo shot. It’s RSV as well as COVID-19. You get a booster, and it has both in there.

00:13:53:14 – 00:13:59:13

Ann Pelham

That’s what grandparents have to do. You never know what you’re going to get. You have three grandchildren, is that right?

00:13:59:13 – 00:14:08:04

David Rubenstein

I have three grandchildren. And they’re young, they have no idea what I actually do. And they probably never will pay much attention to it.

00:14:08:06 – 00:14:11:05

Ann Pelham

But they’re still fun to hang out with.

00:14:11:07 – 00:14:14:11

David Rubenstein

Yes. I never thought I’d be a grandfather, but I am.

00:14:14:13 – 00:14:34:17

Ann Pelham

So, let me just go back to the books part of your life. When you were at Duke you worked in the library. I think I remember a story that you told about [your early life] in Baltimore, [that] you would spend your Saturdays going to the library. So could you talk about libraries in your world?

00:14:34:19 – 00:14:53:19

David Rubenstein

Well, libraries are very important to me because I came from a blue collar family. And I guess early on I realized that if I read books, I could learn about a world that was far different than the world my parents lived in. And so my parents did not graduate from college or high school. And I wanted to do more than they had done, though they were very good as parents.

00:14:53:21 – 00:15:09:19

David Rubenstein

And so when you were six years old in Baltimore, you could get a library card which enabled you to take out 12 books a week. I would take them out on a Saturday. And then I would read the books that whole day, and then I had to wait another week to take another 12 books out. So I realized I really love reading, and I just couldn’t read enough.

00:15:09:19 – 00:15:31:14

David Rubenstein

And so I still try to read roughly 100 books a year. And the reason I’m able to do that is I can read reasonably quickly. But [also] I interview authors a lot, and by interviewing authors, I force-feed myself to read their books. So we just finished the Library of Congress National Book Festival last week. I’ve been the co-chair for the last ten years, and I typically interview five authors about their books.

00:15:31:14 – 00:15:49:22

David Rubenstein

And then somebody interviewed me about my new book. And I have to prepare for that. So I love reading, and I think reading books focuses the mind more than reading a magazine or a Tweet or something like that. It’s a very important part of my life. When I came to Duke, they gave me a three-part scholarship.

00:15:50:03 – 00:16:08:23

David Rubenstein

It was a grant, a loan and a job. And the job was working in the library. But it had the advantage of this. In those days at Duke, like [in] many university libraries, it was a closed stack library, which meant students couldn’t go into the library looking for the books they wanted. They had to go to somebody at the front desk.

00:16:09:01 – 00:16:20:22

David Rubenstein

Well, since I had the ability to go through the stacks all the time because I worked there, I could get all the books I needed more readily than the average student. So anytime I needed a book, I could always go find it quickly. So that was an advantage of working in the library.

00:16:21:00 – 00:16:25:00

Ann Pelham

Yes. So that was your main role, going back and forth to the stacks?

00:16:25:04 – 00:16:42:15

David Rubenstein

If you wanted a book from the library, you had to go to the front desk and fill out the form and then I would be one of the runners that would have to go find the book if it was there. At that time the Perkins Library hadn’t yet been built. It was still the main original library. And then while I was there, Perkins opened. I think in the latter two years of my undergraduate time at Duke.

00:16:42:15 – 00:17:00:04

Ann Pelham

Because I’m thinking by the time I got there — we were both at Duke in 1970, you were graduating in the spring, and I was coming for the first time in the fall. And I remember going in the stacks and loving the ability to see the books near the one you were looking for, which is great serendipity.

00:17:00:08 – 00:17:02:11

David Rubenstein

Well, what class were you?

00:17:02:11 – 00:17:03:09

Ann Pelham

1974.

00:17:03:09 – 00:17:11:04

David Rubenstein

Okay, so I think when Perkins opened they got rid of the closed stacks, and so therefore they let students go in.

00:17:11:06 – 00:17:12:06

Ann Pelham

Because there was more space.

00:17:12:06 – 00:17:19:15

David Rubenstein

It was different then. But I did this my freshman year, and [it] was closed stacks. And I love libraries. I like reading.

00:17:19:17 – 00:17:35:15

Ann Pelham

Is there an experience you had either at the library or on campus that you remember that stands out to you, just looking back? I mean, it’s half a century now. Although nobody at Duke was celebrating the 50th anniversary of the university.

00:17:35:17 – 00:17:50:22

David Rubenstein

Well, I remember when I would get assignments from my professors, I could go to the library and go to the back of the stacks myself and get the books and work pretty quickly. So I could get an advantage over my classmates, and I could probably get books more readily than them.

00:17:51:00 – 00:17:54:05

Ann Pelham

[Laughs] Okay. You mean there weren’t lots of copies?

00:17:54:05 – 00:18:04:19

David Rubenstein

They didn’t have many copies, in those days, of books. So sometimes you’d be reading a book with something that was helpful, and I could get to the book quickly because I worked in the library. There was an advantage. Maybe that helped me get through Duke. I don’t know.

00:18:04:19 – 00:18:14:04

Ann Pelham

You got through Duke, but you also were Phi Beta Kappa and you were magna cum laude and all that. So you didn’t just get through Duke. You did very well.

00:18:14:06 – 00:18:32:13

David Rubenstein

I did okay. But, you know, it’s an interesting phenomenon. In those days, Duke University was a good school, but it was honestly a regional school. When I applied to Duke, it was considered one of the best schools in the South, called by many “the Harvard of the South.” And Stanford in those days was called “the Harvard of the West.”

00:18:32:15 – 00:18:46:02

David Rubenstein

It wasn’t as if they were good enough to be Harvard, but they were “the Harvard of the South” or “the Harvard of the West.” Obviously, the world’s changed. Stanford’s a great university, maybe one of the greatest universities in the world now. And Duke has now risen to be in the top ten universities in the United States by almost any measurement.

00:18:46:04 – 00:19:08:08

David Rubenstein

And you think back on it. In the segregated South, there were a lot of good private schools. Rice, Duke, Emory, Tulane, among others. And Vanderbilt. None of them, other than Duke, is now consistently ranked in the top ten universities in the United States. Only one school that was previously segregated is in the top ten in the United States. And only one southern school is consistently in the top ten.

00:19:08:08 – 00:19:31:22

David Rubenstein

And that’s Duke. So Duke did something that transformed itself to make it not only “the Harvard of the South”, but a school that could compete for students with Harvard. And it’s a big change. When I spoke to my 50th anniversary class — not long ago, it was a little delayed because of COVID — and I went to our Admission’s Office and said, “Just give me the statistics on what happened to my class.

00:19:32:01 – 00:19:57:13

David Rubenstein

How did these people get in?” Now, as you probably know, today Duke is probably [at] a 5% or 6% acceptance. In those days, we had in my class, I think 5,200 people applied. 43% got in. 43%. So I said to my fellow classmates, “You know, you’re all very distinguished. You’ve done great. But, none of you could get in the Duke today, and you only got in the Duke before because we accepted almost half the people.”

00:19:57:15 – 00:19:58:22

David Rubenstein

So it was a different world.

00:19:59:00 – 00:20:04:20

Ann Pelham

It was a different world. What do you credit the change in Duke’s standing to?

00:20:04:22 – 00:20:23:11

David Rubenstein

Duke has risen up as much as any school in the last 50 years that I can think of, with the possible exception of Stanford. Stanford has also risen up dramatically. I think in Duke’s case, it was a factor of several things. We had some outstanding presidents beginning with Terry Sanford, who really wanted to make Duke a national university from the time he became the president.

00:20:23:13 – 00:20:42:18

David Rubenstein

In addition [to] other great presidents we’ve had. Kind of [a] “we try harder” attitude at Duke. So I think people here really want to prove that they’re as good as their brethren in the northeast, let’s say. Third, I think, is [that] the athletic program, particularly basketball, has given Duke a visibility that’s attracted students that might not otherwise have come here.

00:20:42:20 – 00:21:00:15

David Rubenstein

Emory is a very good school too, but because it doesn’t have Division I sports the way Duke does, it hasn’t attracted the same kind of visibility Duke has. Duke also has benefited from having a really great medical complex as well as a law school [and] a business school.

00:21:00:15 – 00:21:23:03

David Rubenstein

So it’s been not just a college, but a real university. It has all the things you want coming together. It has an interdisciplinary spirit and camaraderie in the university that I think is very good. But also it’s the fact that a lot of the students here are very loyal and they’ve come back and have been helpful in philanthropy or in other alumni ways.

00:21:23:03 – 00:21:34:10

David Rubenstein

They’ve done a lot of things that maybe students at other schools haven’t done. So it’s a combination of things that have made it possible for Duke to now be consistently in the top ten universities in the United States.

00:21:34:12 – 00:21:40:00

Ann Pelham

So what role does the Board of Trustees play in this sort of thing?

00:21:40:01 – 00:21:58:18

David Rubenstein

Well, if you ask the Board of Trustees, they’ll say the most important thing that the university does is have the Board of Trustees meetings, right? But the truth is that Duke has had some really good trustees, and people [are] really committed to it. Duke’s situation is a little different than other universities. Duke had,

00:21:58:20 – 00:22:18:03

David Rubenstein

when I chaired it, there were 37 people, I think, on the board. And, I would say about 90% or 95% showed up at every meeting. Some universities have 55, 60, 70, [or] 80 member boards, and people don’t show up. And it gives an attitude that it doesn’t make that much difference to the university if you show up or not. People showed up [here].

00:22:18:05 – 00:22:43:17

David Rubenstein

People take it very seriously. The Board of Trustees has also been among the biggest donors of schools, too. And obviously everybody recognizes that if you go on one of these nonprofit boards that people expect you to probably give money. There’s an old saying in the nonprofit world if you go on a board — “Give, get or get off.” Give money, get money, or get off the board. And I wouldn’t say Duke has that attitude, but there’s no doubt that people get on the board sometimes

00:22:43:17 – 00:23:00:13

David Rubenstein

who are not financially able to give very much, but they give their time. And as I like to remind people in the philanthropy world, the most valuable thing anybody can do to help a nonprofit organization is give your time. You can make more money, but you can’t make more time. And so when you’re giving your time, you’re giving your most precious asset.

00:23:00:15 – 00:23:28:10

David Rubenstein

When [Alexis] de Tocqueville came here in the 1830s to write about the United States, he said he had a hard time getting people to interview with him because everybody was busy volunteering. Because this is a tradition this country has had for such a long time. Volunteering. Giving back. And we continue that today. So I’m upset at times when I read that the great philanthropists in the country are the people that give X, Y, or Z dollars, when you should really measure philanthropy by how much time somebody put into something, as well as how much money they might have given.

00:23:28:12 – 00:23:36:23

Ann Pelham

I get the impression that you are not just writing your check and sending it off. You’re very engaged in the programs that you’re supporting.

00:23:37:00 – 00:23:47:03

David Rubenstein

I’ve tried to get engaged. And so many of the times when I’ve gotten on boards I’ve wound up as a chair. Which maybe reflects the fact that I have been engaged, and or they couldn’t find anybody else who wanted to be the chair.

00:23:47:03 – 00:23:51:06

Ann Pelham

Or you make a suggestion, and you make it again and they finally say, “Fine, you do it. You be the chair.”

00:23:51:06 – 00:24:06:23

David Rubenstein

There is that. But in the end, being the Board chair at Duke was — you know, I was honored to do it. I was the first person who was Jewish who became the chairman of the Board of Duke. And Dan Blue, who is also doing an interview here,

00:24:07:04 – 00:24:26:23

David Rubenstein

I think he was the first African American to be chairman of the Board at Duke. When I came here, Duke had a Jewish quota. It was a 5% quota. It was a quota that was not officially stated, but there was an informal Jewish quota of 5%. When Terry Sanford became president in late 1969, he heard about it and changed it.

00:24:26:23 – 00:24:45:14

David Rubenstein

Got rid of it. There was, you know, I wouldn’t say a Black quota, but in my class there were only 12 Black [students] in my class. And that’s because Duke [had] just desegregated for undergraduates, I think, in 1963. And so when I started in 1966, [they were] just beginning to desegregate the university. So, it’s a different world.

00:24:45:16 – 00:24:54:08

David Rubenstein

The university, it reflects the country. The country has changed dramatically. But in those days, Duke was just getting out of being a segregated school.

00:24:54:10 – 00:24:59:12

Ann Pelham

Right. As a South Carolinian, I’m well aware of all those things.

00:24:59:14 – 00:25:00:12

David Rubenstein

Well, the bestselling book..

00:25:00:12 – 00:25:01:02

Ann Pelham

Go ahead.

00:25:01:02 – 00:25:20:21

David Rubenstein

The bestselling book in the United States right now, number one New York Times Best Seller, is a book about South Carolina and how Fort Sumter was the heart of the beginning of the Civil War. And there was a man from South Carolina who led the effort to secede from the Union. And it was an effort that no other state was as interested in as South Carolina.

00:25:20:23 – 00:25:32:00

David Rubenstein

Obviously the world changed, South Carolina is now a hub of so many other great things that the country’s doing. But in those days it was the leader of the secessionist movement. 

00:25:32:06 – 00:25:47:11

Ann Pelham

Yes, that’s for sure. You’re a higher education expert, I mean, because of the [University of] Chicago where you’re the chair of that Board. You were on the Harvard Corporation. You were a fellow in that, which is only [around] six or seven people.

00:25:47:13 – 00:25:56:12

David Rubenstein

Harvard Corporation used to be six people for 350 or 360 years. Now it’s 12. University of Chicago is 55.

00:25:56:16 – 00:25:58:09

Ann Pelham

So that’s a bigger. . .

00:25:58:09 – 00:26:12:11

David Rubenstein

That’s a big board. And Chicago has a different model. Their motto is, “Look, if you’re extremely wealthy and you don’t have time to show up, give us a lot of money. You don’t have to show up at the Board meetings.” So there are some people on that Board who are extremely wealthy, among the richest in the United States, but they kind of get a pass.

00:26:12:11 – 00:26:28:02

David Rubenstein

And in fact, for a long time, I got a pass, too, because their meetings were the same time as the Duke meetings. And so I said, “Look, I just can’t come to both. So I’m going to go to the Duke meetings. And when I finish with Duke, then I’ll try to come to Chicago meetings.” So I didn’t go to a lot of meetings for a long time at Chicago.

00:26:28:04 – 00:27:01:23

Ann Pelham

There are a lot of challenges now facing universities. Public perception is, in many cases, negative. The Supreme Court is making it more difficult for universities to have a student population that reflects the country. And collegiate athletics is basically in turmoil. How do you see all I mean, is there one of those that you would want to comment on?

00:27:02:01 – 00:27:22:17

David Rubenstein

Well, sure. In any generation, people always will say, “We’ve got really big problems now, and the world is falling apart, and we don’t know how we’re going to get through the next generation.” But the world survives. So, yes. The affirmative action opportunities that existed before are now outlawed by the Supreme Court, more or less. There are ways you can legally circumvent that.

00:27:22:19 – 00:27:50:16

David Rubenstein

You can figure out how to do some things that comply with the Supreme Court decision and still have a diversified student body. So ever since the Supreme Court ruled, universities, while they’ve changed their procedures, they’re still having classes that largely reflect the population. I believe, we don’t know for certain, but I think they do. Secondly, athletics. Athletics is going through a change that nobody would have ever predicted. That not only are universities making an enormous amount of money on athletics, but they are charging.

00:27:50:16 – 00:28:14:11

David Rubenstein

I mean, they’re paying their students now. They’re paying — the student athletes are getting paid large sums of money. And this is something that nobody would have ever expected before. And then not only are the universities paying them, but they’re getting contracts on the outside. So just recently, as we talk, New Balance has just given, I think, a $10 or $10.5 million contract to Cooper Flagg, who’s the star of the [Duke] basketball team.

00:28:14:13 – 00:28:20:20

David Rubenstein

And who would have thought that a basketball player could be paid directly while he’s in college? But the world has changed.

00:28:20:22 – 00:28:22:22

Ann Pelham

And he hasn’t even played a game yet.

00:28:22:22 – 00:28:41:16

David Rubenstein

Hasn’t played a game yet. And so maybe he shouldn’t play a game, you know, he’s doing so well without playing a game. But actually he’s a pretty good player, and I think he’ll do quite well at Duke. But the world has changed. Duke initially resisted the “ones and dones” in basketball. Coach K [Michael Krzyzewski] wanted people to graduate. But then it wasn’t competitive any longer to be doing that.

00:28:41:16 – 00:28:49:17

David Rubenstein

So we did go to the “ones and dones.” It’s complicated, because you have to recognize that these students are not likely to graduate from college ever.

00:28:49:19 – 00:28:51:22

Ann Pelham

Yeah. It will be rare.

00:28:52:00 – 00:28:53:11

David Rubenstein

In the old days…

00:28:53:13 – 00:28:54:05

Ann Pelham

[crosstalk]

00:28:54:07 – 00:29:12:10

David Rubenstein

If you went to basketball — the NBA — one year early, or even the NFL one year early, a lot of students who did that would come back over the summers and get their undergraduate degree. Now, if you only completed one year or even one semester at a university, you’re not likely to want to get a degree.

00:29:12:12 – 00:29:35:21

David Rubenstein

Now, you could say Bill Gates didn’t have a college degree, he did okay. Mark Zuckerberg did okay without a college degree. So you can say, yes, [that] it’s okay to not have a college degree. And if you’re Cooper Flagg or you’re other superstars who can make it in the NBA and make a lot of money, maybe it’s okay. But a lot of people that leave universities like Duke, or other good schools, they think they’re going to be an NBA player and they don’t even get drafted.

00:29:35:21 – 00:29:52:10

David Rubenstein

And they’ve given up their college eligibility, and they wind up playing overseas or not making much money. And then if they get injured, by their late 20s they’re out of work. They don’t have a college degree. And so in some ways they’ve really hurt themselves by not getting a college degree.

00:29:52:12 – 00:30:04:10

Ann Pelham

It’s hard to imagine how it’s all going to settle down, or if it will. But I will keep your advice in mind that everyone always thinks there’s a big problem and it works out.

00:30:04:10 – 00:30:22:23

David Rubenstein

Well, civilization will go forward, no matter what. It’ll work out, but it’ll be different and the rules will be adjusted to accommodate some problems that exist. You know, right now we’re experimenting with “ones and dones” and getting paid and things. Maybe in ten or 15 or 20 years the world of college athletics may change.

00:30:23:00 – 00:30:41:08

David Rubenstein

I think what may happen is that you’re going to get private equity firms like mine coming in and investing in conferences and buying a piece of the ACC or the Big 12 or whatever it’s now called, and sharing in the profits of these kinds of organizations. And in ways that you never would have thought before.

00:30:41:08 – 00:30:55:12

David Rubenstein

And someday you may find a basketball team like the Duke Basketball team purchased by a private equity firm in conjunction with the university. So the private equity firm might own 49%, the university might own 51%, and that is not impossible.

00:30:55:14 – 00:31:04:05

Ann Pelham

But based on the numbers that I’m somewhat familiar with, it’s not a profit-making enterprise, college athletics.

00:31:04:07 – 00:31:24:18

David Rubenstein

Today, as the universities have run it, virtually nothing makes money except for football. Even at Duke, basketball is not really a profitable venture. So, yes. But things may change. Maybe TV contracts become higher than they are today. Who knows. [Maybe] betting will get involved, and maybe universities will share in that.

00:31:24:20 – 00:31:49:04

David Rubenstein

I don’t know how to predict what will happen. But correct. Today, all of college athletics is supported by football. And if you don’t have a football team that gets on television, you’re subsidizing all the sports in the university completely. At Duke, I suspect that the university — when I was chair of the Board, if I recall the numbers, Duke was probably putting $14 or $15 million a year into the university athletic program.

00:31:49:04 – 00:31:57:16

David Rubenstein

The rest was paid for by the profits from basketball and football. Though the profits from football were much bigger than the profits from basketball.

00:31:57:18 – 00:32:01:15

Ann Pelham

And they don’t play as many games. Doesn’t make sense.

00:32:01:15 – 00:32:19:02

David Rubenstein

Well, the contracts in football are just staggering with the size that they are. And basketball — at Duke we have a relatively small arena. For a lot of historic reasons, we’re not likely to change it. If you had a 20,000 seat arena at Duke, you could sell out 20,000 seats. But we don’t have that.

00:32:19:04 – 00:32:37:00

Ann Pelham

And I think if you were looking at it now, with all of the turmoil, you might wonder whether you would be making a wise investment because you just don’t really know what’s going to happen. I mean, maybe Duke can’t compete at that high level in this new world that we  can’t imagine yet.

00:32:37:00 – 00:32:59:21

David Rubenstein

It’s hard to know. Obviously Duke used to be one of the best schools in the country in basketball and football. But I’d say in the 1960s we faded in football after we went to a couple bowl games, and it’s very difficult now to compete in football without a gigantic budget and without recruiting a lot of really, really top players. In basketball, you only need to recruit 2 or 3 really great players to have a good team.

00:33:00:00 – 00:33:01:16

David Rubenstein

Football is much more challenging.

00:33:01:18 – 00:33:13:15

Ann Pelham

It is. It feels like there’s a lot of new energy and enthusiasm among the students. So perhaps that will help Duke fill the stadium.

00:33:13:17 – 00:33:33:23

David Rubenstein

Well, it may happen. I think in football you also have the phenomenon that there you have injury possibilities that are really terrible. You have to worry about concussions and so forth. And I wouldn’t be surprised if ten years from today, the Ivy League got out of football completely — for concussion and health reasons, and financial reasons.

00:33:34:01 – 00:33:40:05

Ann Pelham

Yeah, there are an awful lot of parents of young children who don’t think football is the right sport anymore for them.

00:33:40:06 – 00:33:45:07

David Rubenstein

Well, you know, the Olympics are now talking about in LA coming up with and having..

00:33:45:09 – 00:33:47:07

Ann Pelham

Flag football, right.

00:33:47:09 – 00:33:50:01

David Rubenstein

Maybe flag football will be the future. Who knows.

00:33:50:03 – 00:34:11:07

Ann Pelham

So, let me just switch gears a little bit. I’ve got the impression that you, in addition to all the other work you’re doing, that you like bringing people together. I was thinking of the Economic Club of Washington, which is [where] you found out that you were actually a pretty good interviewer. You had to put together a program once a quarter.

00:34:11:07 – 00:34:33:18

Ann Pelham

I think it was Vernon Jordan who got you involved in that originally. And you host dinners regularly for members of Congress. Your bipartisan dinners. Am I right, and what is Duke’s responsibility to get people together to help build community? Am I reading your interest right? You do enjoy that?

00:34:33:20 – 00:34:54:04

David Rubenstein

I do. You know, I didn’t consider myself in an interview of any note. What happened was [that] my firm, Carlyle, used to have gigantic investment conferences with 1000 or 2000 people. And to have a draw at those conferences, I would hire former presidents of the United States, and former speakers of the House, or the secretaries of state. And they were boring sometimes.

00:34:54:10 – 00:35:09:10

David Rubenstein

So I went to the speaking agent and said, “Can I interview them and make it maybe more humorous, maybe I can add some humor?” They said, “Is the speaking fee going to be the same?” I said, “Yeah, it will be the same.” They said, “As long as the fees are the same, they don’t care if they’re interviewed or giving a speech.” So I started interviewing them, and I made Hillary Clinton look very funny.

00:35:09:15 – 00:35:13:19

David Rubenstein

I made [former Federal Reserve Chair] Ben Bernanke look like an exciting kind of person. and so. . .

00:35:13:19 – 00:35:16:02

Ann Pelham

Do you want to change chairs?

00:35:16:04 – 00:35:28:02

David Rubenstein

[Laughs] I thought that I could do this. And then when Vernon Jordan asked me to be the head of the Economic Club of Washington, he said, “Just get four business people a year to speak. That’s all you’re doing. Let them speak, and then you have questions for the members come in, and you read the cards from the questions. And that’s it.”

00:35:28:04 – 00:35:42:16

David Rubenstein

So I started doing it, and I realized the members were falling asleep while the speeches were being given, and the questions from the members were terrible. So I started pretending I was reading questions from the members, and I was making them up. I was making up humorous questions. People would laugh. I decided to junk the format and just go to the interview format.

00:35:42:18 – 00:35:59:06

David Rubenstein

And then Bloomberg saw it, and eventually put it on TV. So it isn’t a skill that I thought I had, to be an interviewer, and it’s not likely that you’re going to get to heaven more quickly by being a good interviewer. But it’s something that keeps me interested in things, and I’ll tell you why I enjoy it.

00:35:59:06 – 00:36:17:01

David Rubenstein

Now, not only does it get me the chance to meet people — in other words, sometimes I wouldn’t have a chance to meet somebody, but if they want to be on a show and I’m doing the interview, I get to meet them. So that’s it. But also, when you get to be a certain age, your brain, you know, is maybe going to atrophy a little bit, for normal or non-normal reasons.

00:36:17:03 – 00:36:31:19

David Rubenstein

And they say you should, if you’re worried about this, take up a foreign language. I have no foreign language skills. Take up a musical instrument. I’m tone deaf. I can’t play an instrument. Or do crossword puzzles. I can’t do that. So I’ve thought that my interviewing is my way to kind of do the equivalent of keeping your brain sharp.

00:36:31:19 – 00:36:46:18

David Rubenstein

So I have to prepare for the interviews, just as you’ve obviously prepared. You have to, you know, do some research, read, prepare the questions, and then be in a dialog with people, and be alert to it. So it’s my way of kind of keeping Alzheimer’s as far away as possible.

00:36:46:20 – 00:36:50:06

Ann Pelham

Alright. Well, I’m glad to get the true story of your. . . 

00:36:50:11 – 00:36:50:21

David Rubenstein

[Crosstalk]

00:36:50:23 – 00:36:51:19

Ann Pelham

Your origin interview story.

00:36:51:21 – 00:36:56:02

David Rubenstein

That’s why I do it. And we’ll see. I’ll find out in time whether it works or not.

00:36:56:06 – 00:36:59:00

Ann Pelham

And how’s it going with the bipartisan dinners?

00:36:59:03 – 00:37:17:09

David Rubenstein

Well, let me explain what that is. About ten years ago, I thought that members of Congress [from opposite parties] were never really meeting with each other anymore, because we don’t have conference committees passing legislation anymore. The congressional delegations I used to go overseas [inaudible]. They don’t have very much for them anymore.

00:37:17:11 – 00:37:32:14

David Rubenstein

So I decided what I would do is I’d host a dinner at the Library of Congress where I would say to members, “Please come, I’ll give you a nice, very free dinner. You can get there easily by going underground for the passageways in the Congress to the Library of Congress. There are no traffic problems [crosstalk].” I’m sorry?

00:37:32:18 – 00:37:34:07

Ann Pelham

No rain.

00:37:34:09 – 00:37:52:05

David Rubenstein

“No weather problems. And then I will have a great person like Doris Kearns Goodwin. I’ll interview her or Ken Burns, someone like that, about American history. And you can learn more about American history, but I want you to sit with people from the opposite party in the opposite House.” And they do. And, we’ve had maybe more than 100 of them by now.

00:37:52:07 – 00:38:07:04

David Rubenstein

The members really say, sometimes sadly, [that] this is the most interesting thing they’re doing in Congress is going to these dinners. Because that shouldn’t be the most interesting thing they’re doing. But many members of Congress seem to love it. And so I’ll keep doing it as long as members show up. We get about 250 [members] every time.

00:38:07:06 – 00:38:10:12

Ann Pelham

Is it really once a month, or do you take the summer off?

00:38:10:14 – 00:38:16:20

David Rubenstein

Well, we do it once a month or around the congressional schedule. So we try to do about ten of them a year, or something like that.

00:38:16:22 – 00:38:28:14

Ann Pelham

So, I’m still going to stick to my theory that you enjoy getting people together. And giving them opportunities to communicate with each other and build a community.

00:38:28:19 – 00:38:46:05

David Rubenstein

I enjoy it. I think it’s fun to bring people together and they’re not throwing things at me, so that’s good. And nobody’s usually criticizing me for giving them a free dinner, so that’s good. And the members of Congress have told me that they’ve gotten to meet people from the opposite party in the opposite House that they wouldn’t have otherwise met.

00:38:46:05 – 00:38:48:03

David Rubenstein

And they think that’s a good thing.

00:38:48:05 – 00:39:06:22

Ann Pelham

It is a good thing. I think with Duke, what I’m remembering is during the last campaign, you were very positive about the idea of bringing everyone in the room. Not just the people with big bank accounts. And why is that? Why was that? 

00:39:06:22 – 00:39:30:21

David Rubenstein

Well, a capital campaign is the great American invention of the 20th century, you could say. Universities didn’t have capital campaigns in the 1800s, and then they kind of invented these in the 1900s or so. And now they’re gigantic affairs, they’re multibillion dollar affairs. And they tend to bring a university together. I think it’s a bonding thing for university alums, and also for faculty and others who all participate in it.

00:39:30:23 – 00:39:54:00

David Rubenstein

So I think it’s a good thing. And obviously it helps raise money for our university, which I think is important. And I should say that one of the reasons I’ve been connected to a number of universities, and I enjoy it, is that I think that universities are the great national treasures that we have that often aren’t appreciated fully. Because people from all over the world want to get their degrees from American universities.

00:39:54:02 – 00:40:20:18

David Rubenstein

American universities have the opportunity to take somebody from a modest background like mine and enable them to do things in life that get them a different standing in life. And so I think these are treasures. 

00:40:33:10 – 00:40:55:14

Ann Pelham

I think sometimes — you’ve stayed connected with Duke in recent years, I’ll just ask you. Often with alumni, there’s a period where you’re not engaged. You know, life gets in the way, you’re raising a family, and so on. And I was wondering as I looked at all the things that you’ve done for Duke, was that your experience?

00:40:55:14 – 00:41:03:15

Ann Pelham

It certainly was mine. I wasn’t engaged for a while, and then I came back. Did that happen to you, and what was it that drew you back?

00:41:03:15 – 00:41:23:11

David Rubenstein

Absolutely. I graduated from Duke in 1970. I don’t think I set foot back on the campus for 25 years. I was building my career. There was no benefit for me that I could see in going back to Duke. I wasn’t really that engaged in the basketball program. And then Joel Fleishman, who was a professor at Duke and involved with the Sanford School [of Public Policy], helped to get it off the ground, 

00:41:23:13 – 00:41:38:14

David Rubenstein

he came to see me and asked me for some money to help build a building at the Sanford School. I said okay, and I got engaged. And that was the first time I really got engaged, the first time anybody ever asked me for money from Duke. And so that was 1995. So for 25 years I did nothing at Duke.

00:41:38:16 – 00:41:52:05

David Rubenstein

So I tell people, you can do other things and come back later in life if you don’t want to do it right away. That’s what I did. Since that time, though, I’ve gotten more engaged. And then they asked me to go on the Board of Duke, I guess maybe a few years after that.

00:41:52:10 – 00:41:57:07

David Rubenstein

And then I got more involved with Duke, and you could stay on the Board, at that time, for 12 years. I don’t know if it’s still 12 years.

00:41:57:07 – 00:42:18:08

Ann Pelham

It’s still 12 years. You served your time and we appreciate it. So, if I look at what you’ve done at Duke, my assumption — and you can correct me — is that maybe you follow your interest, as much as follow the Joel Fleishmans of the world. You wouldn’t have made that gift unless you were interested in public policy.

00:42:18:10 – 00:42:35:08

David Rubenstein

Well, in that case, I was interested in public policy as I spent my years in the White House. And I like public policy. But I also felt I owed something to Duke. I hadn’t really repaid the student loans yet. I mean, I had paid the student loans back, but I hadn’t really paid back Duke for the gift that they gave me of an education, and the scholarship they gave me, and other things.

00:42:35:08 – 00:42:53:13

David Rubenstein

So I felt the same about the University of Chicago. They gave me a large scholarship there for law school. So, I’ve tried to do that. I think in the end, if you try to be buried having all your money in your bank account, I’m not sure that you’re going to be getting to heaven more quickly or be happier when you’re on your deathbed.

00:42:53:16 – 00:42:57:03

David Rubenstein

All the money I have in my bank account. Is that going to make me happier?

00:42:57:05 – 00:43:24:00

Ann Pelham

Well, in the context of Duke, you’ve supported the libraries, which we know from earlier conversation here that that was dear to your heart. And I think you’ve also been very engaged in supporting the arts. Financial Aid as well. You came through for a program to help low-income first generation [college] students.

00:43:24:02 – 00:43:40:23

David Rubenstein

Well, I was a first generation student. So as I was finishing up my term, [Duke President] Dick Brodhead asked if I would put up some money to help first generation students, which I did. And now we’ve changed the program a bit. The arts is something I’ve been involved with for a long time at the Kennedy Center [and] the Lincoln Center. And Duke didn’t have an arts building

00:43:40:23 – 00:43:57:19

David Rubenstein

that quite did what I thought it should do. So I asked if they would support the effort to have one, and I would put up about half the money to get it done. And then I’ve supported extending the Cameron Indoor Stadium, because they had no place to entertain, as you may recall, at basketball games.

00:43:57:21 – 00:44:15:04

David Rubenstein

And then I supported the library, supported the rare book library. And then I’ve supported some other programs at Duke that people have asked me about. I wish I had as much money as everybody thinks I have, so I could do everything that people ask me to do. But, you know, I try to be supportive of as many things as I can.

00:44:15:06 – 00:44:22:18

Ann Pelham

And thank you for that. I understand that you’re okay with the arts building being called The Ruby?

00:44:22:19 – 00:44:40:14

David Rubenstein

They called me about that [laughs] where they wanted to have an officially called or unofficially called the Ruby. And I said, “I don’t care.” It didn’t bother me. And I think the building has served a purpose. I’ve talked to them about the need to have a bigger building, and more extensive, but they seem to be happy with the building they have.

00:44:40:19 – 00:44:43:09

David Rubenstein

So I think the building has done a good job for Duke.

00:44:43:10 – 00:45:05:11

Ann Pelham

I think it’s a lovely space. I’ve been to some performances there. They’re slightly more informal and then really close — like it was dancers, ballet dancers, from New York. And it was amazing just to see their bodies up close, because they’re so strong and you don’t really get that when they’re up on the stage. So I think it brings a lot to the campus.

00:45:05:11 – 00:45:14:12

Ann Pelham

And now that the house has moved from across the street, and you’ve got the art museum right there, it’s really a lovely intersection.

00:45:14:15 – 00:45:26:06

David Rubenstein

It’s been a good addition. This building that we’re now in is a building that came about as a result when we took — I wanted to have the Duke Board go to Stanford University when — you were on the tour, right?

00:45:26:06 – 00:45:26:21

Ann Pelham

I went on the tour.

00:45:26:23 – 00:45:44:19

David Rubenstein

So we took a tour of Stanford, and did a retreat there. And then we came up with some ideas. One was to have a visitor center, which we really didn’t quite have. And so we came back and ultimately we built this visitor center. And Bruce Karsh’s family helped endow it and get it off the ground.

00:45:44:21 – 00:45:46:13

Ann Pelham

It turned out really well.

00:45:46:15 – 00:46:15:17

David Rubenstein

So far it’s worked out, I think. So I’m happy with it. And look, I’m happy with things that occurred when I was at Duke. And, you know, the highlight at the end was, I think, Dick asked me to give the commencement speech at the end of my last year. And it was a bittersweet time because I’d asked my mother to come, but she passed away just a few weeks before the commencement. And it was actually on Mother’s Day.

00:46:15:18 – 00:46:16:10

Ann Pelham

I’m sorry. 

00:46:16:12 – 00:46:31:05

David Rubenstein

So we talked about it. But I enjoyed giving that commencement speech and Duke has been something I’m very happy that I got connected with. And if my neighbor hadn’t given me the application, I would have been at some other school. Who knows?

00:46:31:07 – 00:46:37:07

Ann Pelham

We’re glad you came here. What about Duke makes you most proud?

00:46:37:09 – 00:47:02:09

David Rubenstein

Well, many things. One is [that] Duke is a highly regarded university. So now, many of my friends whose kids once thought they wanted to go to Harvard, now they want to go to Duke. Duke has built a combination of good athletics and good academics in the same university. I’m proud of the fact that Duke got through the recent turmoil of universities as well as any university ever.

00:47:02:11 – 00:47:17:00

David Rubenstein

It’s a university that I think everybody can be proud of. And no university is perfect. Duke can always do some things better.

00:47:17:00 – 00:47:39:07

David Rubenstein

But as a general rule of thumb, I think Duke has done a good job of educating people, which is the most important thing that a university does, it does a good job of world-class research, [and] a good job of keeping alumni informed about what’s happened to the university. As you may have heard me say, somewhat tongue in cheek, everybody should have an interest in how a university does after you graduate.

00:47:39:13 – 00:47:54:01

David Rubenstein

Because if that university gets better and better and better and better, then people think you’re smarter and smarter and smarter than you really are. If the university goes this way [gestures], people think you’re not as smart. So I have an incentive, and all alums have an incentive, to make the university look better and better. Because people say, “Wow, you went to Duke. You must be really smart.”

00:47:54:02 – 00:48:12:02

David Rubenstein

Whereas when I got in, only half the people got in. It wasn’t so hard, [you didn’t have] to be that smart to get in. So, tongue in cheek, I like to say that everybody has an interest in their university doing better and better. But the truth is universities attract people to give them money because they’re proud of the university that they attended as their alma mater.

00:48:12:06 – 00:48:26:06

David Rubenstein

They maybe in some cases want to have their children go there, and they think that giving money may help. I don’t know that it does. And then I think people just take pride in the school that kind of nurtured them from being a teenager to a young adult.

00:48:26:08 – 00:48:28:16

Ann Pelham

It’s an important phase of life.

00:48:28:18 – 00:48:31:07

David Rubenstein

Right. So, your children go to Duke?

00:48:31:09 – 00:48:32:15

Ann Pelham

One. Our daughter.

00:48:32:15 – 00:48:34:16

David Rubenstein

And your daughter is happy?

00:48:34:18 – 00:48:35:15

Ann Pelham

Yeah.

00:48:35:17 – 00:48:50:16

David Rubenstein

So my two daughters went to Harvard. My son– he got into Harvard — he said, “I don’t want to go to Harvard.” He went to Duke.  And I remember saying, “Andrew, I’m going to be the chairman of the Board when you’re here. It’s not a good idea for you, probably, to be here. Because it doesn’t look good.”

00:48:50:16 – 00:49:07:23

David Rubenstein

He said, “No, it’s not a problem. Nobody knows who the chairman of the Board is.” Which probably is right. [Not a lot of] students care. 

00:49:17:15 – 00:49:22:22

Ann Pelham

Last question. What are your hopes for Duke in its second century?

00:49:23:00 – 00:49:32:15

David Rubenstein

Well, Duke is in its second century now, really, in some sense. Duke — depending on your point of view — was started in 1838.

00:49:32:15 – 00:49:33:01

Ann Pelham

I know.

00:49:33:06 – 00:49:52:07

David Rubenstein

But if you get past that, it was started in 1924. And then we get to the second century. I hope that Duke will remain one of the top universities in the United States. I think we have to be realistic in that we don’t have the endowment that Harvard, Yale, Princeton, and Stanford do. So competing with schools with that kind of endowment is difficult. Not impossible.

00:49:52:09 – 00:50:08:06

David Rubenstein

But I think I want it to be a place where people say it’s not a university that’s a southern school, it’s a national school that happens to be located in the South. It’s a national school that the parents of the kids who go here are very proud to have their kids go here. And the students who go here are happy.

00:50:08:08 – 00:50:25:11

David Rubenstein

You know, the most elusive thing in life is personal happiness. Very hard to get, as we all know, going through life. But students who graduate from Duke seem to be personally happy. And that’s good. And if their kids are personally happy, the parents are happy. So Duke produces a lot of happiness, and I think that’s good.

00:50:25:16 – 00:50:32:14

David Rubenstein

I also hope we win another national basketball championship in the beginning of the second century. And I hope we win a lot more after that, too.

00:50:32:15 – 00:50:33:23

Ann Pelham

And you hope you’re there watching it.

00:50:34:04 – 00:50:51:03

David Rubenstein

I expect to be there. I hope to be there. I went to the last game. [During] Coach K’s last season, I thought maybe God was looking favorably upon him because we got to the Final Four. I went down there in New Orleans, and we just — there was some school, I can’t remember the name of it,

00:50:51:05 – 00:50:53:19

David Rubenstein

that beat us in the semifinals.

00:50:53:21 – 00:51:03:05

Ann Pelham

Well, I’m with you. Let’s hope that happens. And, thank you very much for your time and energy. I know that time is the most valuable thing.

00:51:03:07 – 00:51:16:04

David Rubenstein

Thanks for doing this. And thanks for your service as a great Board member at Duke when I was on the board. And thanks for taking the time to do this. It’s not easy, you’re obviously prepared. So you’re giving the most valuable thing to prepare, which is your time.

00:51:16:06 – 00:51:17:20

Ann Pelham

Alright. Good enough. Thank you.